Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up

[Geraldo]

Ralph Klein shoots off his stupid mouth again!!!...Ralph emabarrasses Canada
with stupid remarks at Governor's Meeting...(Full story follows)......With
Ralph's wisdom on cover ups it brings to mind several during his
premiership......"SHOOT, SHOVEL, SHUT UP"...Has anyone seen the COOS since
they disappeared after it was revealed they had been giving Ralph and
Colleen all sorts of gifts with the money they stole from Bank Of Montreal?

Maybe Ralph actually takes his own advice. With his free stock deal there
were too many to Shoot , Shovel, and Shut up about so he did what he
normally does...HE LIES..the fat little prick.




==============================================
'Shoot, shovel, shut up'
Premier's words defended as 'ironic' -- not advice to break the law

Kelly Cryderman and Jim Farrell, Journal Staff Writers
Edmonton Journal


Premier Ralph Klein has suggested that any "self-respecting rancher" would
have killed and buried the northern Alberta animal stricken with mad cow
disease, instead of taking it to a slaughterhouse.

"It all came about through the discovery of a single, isolated case of mad
cow disease in one Alberta cow on May 20," Klein told state governors and
his fellow western premiers at the Western Governors' Association meeting
Sunday in Big Sky, Montana.

"This was in northern Alberta, and the farmer was a -- I think he was a
Louisiana fish-farmer -- who knew nothing about cattle ranching. And I guess
any self-respecting rancher would have shot, shovelled and shut up, but he
didn't do that. Instead he took it an abattoir and it was discovered after
testing in both Winnipeg and the U.K. that this cow, this older cow, had mad
cow disease."

On a tape of speech obtained from a National Public Radio affiliate, Klein
goes on to speak about the economic devastation the one diseased cow caused
to the Canadian economy, along with his frustration over international
border closures. He asked for the governors' assistance in getting the
border fully re-opened.

The premier was unavailable for comment Tuesday, but his office said Klein
had been speaking sarcastically.

Klein's spokesman Jim Law said the premier was not advocating the practise
of shoot, shovel and shut up. "We have protocols in place, and we want the
animals -- if any occur -- to be found."

But Alberta Liberal Leader Ken Nicol called Klein's remarks the "most
damaging thing that has been said by anybody" since Canada's single case of
bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) came to light May 20.

"It shows a total disrespect for what we have to do to sustain an
international image of quality in our beef products," Nicol said. "A person
out there representing our province should never, even in jest, had said
that."

Nicol added, "if it ever came to light that we did what the premier
suggested, our industry would be destroyed."

Canadian beef was banned by almost three dozen countries in late May when it
was made public that a single case of BSE had been found in northern
Alberta. The animal came from Marwyn Peaster's farm near Wanham, Alta.
Peaster had moved to Alberta from Mississippi, and had once raised catfish.

Although the U.S. is now accepting some cuts of beef, borders remain closed
to many beef cuts and live cattle -- costing the Canadian industry millions
of dollars each day.

Peter Clark, a trade consultant with an expertise in agriculture, said he
hopes the premier was speaking sarcastically.

"I've done work for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association before, and these
cattlemen are as honest as the day is long," Clark said. "They have an
interest in maintaining the system."

Klein's comments do not help the situation, Clark said. "Here's the leader
of our provincial government suggesting that it's alright or it's smart to
cover up things like this. And that's certainly not government policy, and
it's not a policy that ranchers in Alberta, I sure, would advocate either.

"I'm sure that a lot of (ranchers) wish that it had never come to light, but
it did. And the system is there to protect us, and to protect our
reputation."

Ron Wooddisse, president of the Ontario Cattlemen's Association, said Klein
was likely trying to make the point that sick animals should not go into the
food chain. Cattle should be tested and BSE should not be hidden, he said,
but many farmers do feel frustrated that millions has been lost because of
one animal.

"What's the payback for being the boy scout?" Wooddisse said has been the
concern voiced. "All we've done is got kicked in the teeth."

Cindy McCreath, a spokeswoman for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association,
would not comment on Klein's remarks. But she said that the Canadian, U.S.
and Mexican governments, along with cattle industry organizations, have
asked the international body which regulates animal health, the OIE, to
introduce less punitive standards for countries that have strong safety
protocols in place but still end up with one case of mad cow disease.

As part of their arguments, they say having a policy in place that leads to
such a quick closing of borders could push some farmers to try to hide BSE
cases.

In July, federal cabinet minister Ralph Goodale said the "unjustifiable" way
trade partners have dealt with Canada due to its one case of mad cow disease
will encourage other countries to "shoot, shovel and shut up" when dealing
with infected animals.

[The #1 Sharxster]

"Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote in message
news:Ud1ab.977780$***@news3.calgary.shaw.ca...
> Ralph Klein shoots off his stupid mouth again!!!...Ralph emabarrasses
Canada
> with stupid remarks at Governor's Meeting...(Full story follows)......With
> Ralph's wisdom on cover ups it brings to mind several during his
> premiership......"SHOOT, SHOVEL, SHUT UP"...Has anyone seen the COOS since
> they disappeared after it was revealed they had been giving Ralph and
> Colleen all sorts of gifts with the money they stole from Bank Of
Montreal?
>
> Maybe Ralph actually takes his own advice. With his free stock deal there
> were too many to Shoot , Shovel, and Shut up about so he did what he
> normally does...HE LIES..the fat little prick.
>
>
>
>
> ==============================================
> 'Shoot, shovel, shut up'
> Premier's words defended as 'ironic' -- not advice to break the law
>
> Kelly Cryderman and Jim Farrell, Journal Staff Writers
> Edmonton Journal
>
>
> Premier Ralph Klein has suggested that any "self-respecting rancher" would
> have killed and buried the northern Alberta animal stricken with mad cow
> disease, instead of taking it to a slaughterhouse.
>
> "It all came about through the discovery of a single, isolated case of mad
> cow disease in one Alberta cow on May 20," Klein told state governors and
> his fellow western premiers at the Western Governors' Association meeting
> Sunday in Big Sky, Montana.
>
> "This was in northern Alberta, and the farmer was a -- I think he was a
> Louisiana fish-farmer -- who knew nothing about cattle ranching. And I
guess
> any self-respecting rancher would have shot, shovelled and shut up, but he
> didn't do that. Instead he took it an abattoir and it was discovered after
> testing in both Winnipeg and the U.K. that this cow, this older cow, had
mad
> cow disease."
>
> On a tape of speech obtained from a National Public Radio affiliate, Klein
> goes on to speak about the economic devastation the one diseased cow
caused
> to the Canadian economy, along with his frustration over international
> border closures. He asked for the governors' assistance in getting the
> border fully re-opened.
>
> The premier was unavailable for comment Tuesday, but his office said Klein
> had been speaking sarcastically.
>
> Klein's spokesman Jim Law said the premier was not advocating the practise
> of shoot, shovel and shut up. "We have protocols in place, and we want the
> animals -- if any occur -- to be found."
>
> But Alberta Liberal Leader Ken Nicol called Klein's remarks the "most
> damaging thing that has been said by anybody" since Canada's single case
of
> bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) came to light May 20.
>
> "It shows a total disrespect for what we have to do to sustain an
> international image of quality in our beef products," Nicol said. "A
person
> out there representing our province should never, even in jest, had said
> that."
>
> Nicol added, "if it ever came to light that we did what the premier
> suggested, our industry would be destroyed."
>
> Canadian beef was banned by almost three dozen countries in late May when
it
> was made public that a single case of BSE had been found in northern
> Alberta. The animal came from Marwyn Peaster's farm near Wanham, Alta.
> Peaster had moved to Alberta from Mississippi, and had once raised
catfish.
>
> Although the U.S. is now accepting some cuts of beef, borders remain
closed
> to many beef cuts and live cattle -- costing the Canadian industry
millions
> of dollars each day.
>
> Peter Clark, a trade consultant with an expertise in agriculture, said he
> hopes the premier was speaking sarcastically.
>
> "I've done work for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association before, and these
> cattlemen are as honest as the day is long," Clark said. "They have an
> interest in maintaining the system."
>
> Klein's comments do not help the situation, Clark said. "Here's the leader
> of our provincial government suggesting that it's alright or it's smart to
> cover up things like this. And that's certainly not government policy, and
> it's not a policy that ranchers in Alberta, I sure, would advocate either.
>
> "I'm sure that a lot of (ranchers) wish that it had never come to light,
but
> it did. And the system is there to protect us, and to protect our
> reputation."
>
> Ron Wooddisse, president of the Ontario Cattlemen's Association, said
Klein
> was likely trying to make the point that sick animals should not go into
the
> food chain. Cattle should be tested and BSE should not be hidden, he said,
> but many farmers do feel frustrated that millions has been lost because of
> one animal.
>
> "What's the payback for being the boy scout?" Wooddisse said has been the
> concern voiced. "All we've done is got kicked in the teeth."
>
> Cindy McCreath, a spokeswoman for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association,
> would not comment on Klein's remarks. But she said that the Canadian, U.S.
> and Mexican governments, along with cattle industry organizations, have
> asked the international body which regulates animal health, the OIE, to
> introduce less punitive standards for countries that have strong safety
> protocols in place but still end up with one case of mad cow disease.
>
> As part of their arguments, they say having a policy in place that leads
to
> such a quick closing of borders could push some farmers to try to hide BSE
> cases.
>
> In July, federal cabinet minister Ralph Goodale said the "unjustifiable"
way
> trade partners have dealt with Canada due to its one case of mad cow
disease
> will encourage other countries to "shoot, shovel and shut up" when dealing
> with infected animals.
>

LIEbrawl Agriculture Minister Ralph Goodale said exactly the same thing.
Can't you assholes understand what irony and sarcasm are when you hear them?

>
>
>

[`Top Poster`]

Sharxs this is why many people stoped eating beef a long time ago, it can
not be trusted, it is not safe

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous

The #1 Sharxster <***@thesharxmanor.com> wrote in message
news:7l1ab.11544$***@news1.telusplanet.net...
>
> "Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote in message
> news:Ud1ab.977780$***@news3.calgary.shaw.ca...
> > Ralph Klein shoots off his stupid mouth again!!!...Ralph emabarrasses
> Canada
> > with stupid remarks at Governor's Meeting...(Full story
follows)......With
> > Ralph's wisdom on cover ups it brings to mind several during his
> > premiership......"SHOOT, SHOVEL, SHUT UP"...Has anyone seen the COOS
since
> > they disappeared after it was revealed they had been giving Ralph and
> > Colleen all sorts of gifts with the money they stole from Bank Of
> Montreal?
> >
> > Maybe Ralph actually takes his own advice. With his free stock deal
there
> > were too many to Shoot , Shovel, and Shut up about so he did what he
> > normally does...HE LIES..the fat little prick.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==============================================
> > 'Shoot, shovel, shut up'
> > Premier's words defended as 'ironic' -- not advice to break the law
> >
> > Kelly Cryderman and Jim Farrell, Journal Staff Writers
> > Edmonton Journal
> >
> >
> > Premier Ralph Klein has suggested that any "self-respecting rancher"
would
> > have killed and buried the northern Alberta animal stricken with mad cow
> > disease, instead of taking it to a slaughterhouse.
> >
> > "It all came about through the discovery of a single, isolated case of
mad
> > cow disease in one Alberta cow on May 20," Klein told state governors
and
> > his fellow western premiers at the Western Governors' Association
meeting
> > Sunday in Big Sky, Montana.
> >
> > "This was in northern Alberta, and the farmer was a -- I think he was a
> > Louisiana fish-farmer -- who knew nothing about cattle ranching. And I
> guess
> > any self-respecting rancher would have shot, shovelled and shut up, but
he
> > didn't do that. Instead he took it an abattoir and it was discovered
after
> > testing in both Winnipeg and the U.K. that this cow, this older cow, had
> mad
> > cow disease."
> >
> > On a tape of speech obtained from a National Public Radio affiliate,
Klein
> > goes on to speak about the economic devastation the one diseased cow
> caused
> > to the Canadian economy, along with his frustration over international
> > border closures. He asked for the governors' assistance in getting the
> > border fully re-opened.
> >
> > The premier was unavailable for comment Tuesday, but his office said
Klein
> > had been speaking sarcastically.
> >
> > Klein's spokesman Jim Law said the premier was not advocating the
practise
> > of shoot, shovel and shut up. "We have protocols in place, and we want
the
> > animals -- if any occur -- to be found."
> >
> > But Alberta Liberal Leader Ken Nicol called Klein's remarks the "most
> > damaging thing that has been said by anybody" since Canada's single case
> of
> > bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) came to light May 20.
> >
> > "It shows a total disrespect for what we have to do to sustain an
> > international image of quality in our beef products," Nicol said. "A
> person
> > out there representing our province should never, even in jest, had said
> > that."
> >
> > Nicol added, "if it ever came to light that we did what the premier
> > suggested, our industry would be destroyed."
> >
> > Canadian beef was banned by almost three dozen countries in late May
when
> it
> > was made public that a single case of BSE had been found in northern
> > Alberta. The animal came from Marwyn Peaster's farm near Wanham, Alta.
> > Peaster had moved to Alberta from Mississippi, and had once raised
> catfish.
> >
> > Although the U.S. is now accepting some cuts of beef, borders remain
> closed
> > to many beef cuts and live cattle -- costing the Canadian industry
> millions
> > of dollars each day.
> >
> > Peter Clark, a trade consultant with an expertise in agriculture, said
he
> > hopes the premier was speaking sarcastically.
> >
> > "I've done work for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association before, and
these
> > cattlemen are as honest as the day is long," Clark said. "They have an
> > interest in maintaining the system."
> >
> > Klein's comments do not help the situation, Clark said. "Here's the
leader
> > of our provincial government suggesting that it's alright or it's smart
to
> > cover up things like this. And that's certainly not government policy,
and
> > it's not a policy that ranchers in Alberta, I sure, would advocate
either.
> >
> > "I'm sure that a lot of (ranchers) wish that it had never come to light,
> but
> > it did. And the system is there to protect us, and to protect our
> > reputation."
> >
> > Ron Wooddisse, president of the Ontario Cattlemen's Association, said
> Klein
> > was likely trying to make the point that sick animals should not go into
> the
> > food chain. Cattle should be tested and BSE should not be hidden, he
said,
> > but many farmers do feel frustrated that millions has been lost because
of
> > one animal.
> >
> > "What's the payback for being the boy scout?" Wooddisse said has been
the
> > concern voiced. "All we've done is got kicked in the teeth."
> >
> > Cindy McCreath, a spokeswoman for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association,
> > would not comment on Klein's remarks. But she said that the Canadian,
U.S.
> > and Mexican governments, along with cattle industry organizations, have
> > asked the international body which regulates animal health, the OIE, to
> > introduce less punitive standards for countries that have strong safety
> > protocols in place but still end up with one case of mad cow disease.
> >
> > As part of their arguments, they say having a policy in place that leads
> to
> > such a quick closing of borders could push some farmers to try to hide
BSE
> > cases.
> >
> > In July, federal cabinet minister Ralph Goodale said the "unjustifiable"
> way
> > trade partners have dealt with Canada due to its one case of mad cow
> disease
> > will encourage other countries to "shoot, shovel and shut up" when
dealing
> > with infected animals.
> >
>
> LIEbrawl Agriculture Minister Ralph Goodale said exactly the same thing.
> Can't you assholes understand what irony and sarcasm are when you hear
them?
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Black Jacques Shellaque]

In article <Av2ab.3167$***@localhost>,
"`Top Poster`" <***@Poster.com> wrote:

> Sharxs this is why many people stoped eating beef a long time ago, it can
> not be trusted, it is not safe


First, I am somewhat surprised that you are able to type something
original besides your usual bandwidth wasting "WANKER" posts. Second,
beef is safe. They have done the science, they have done the testing.
Has there been any case of anyone in Alberta...or Canada for that matter
that has caught spongiform encephalopathy from a hamburger or a steak
either recently or over the last several years? No. Just because
Klein put his foot in his mouth is no reason to accuse the ranchers et.
al of producing a bad product especially when all the science verifies
that Alberta beef is of the usual excellent quality.

Stop acting like such an ass.

--
Failure is not an option, it comes bundled with Windows.

[foamy]

In article <spammers-***@newsnews.telus.net
>, Black Jacques Shellaque <***@are.vermin> wrote:

Just because
>Klein put his foot in his mouth is no reason to accuse the ranchers et.
>al of producing a bad product especially when all the science verifies
>that Alberta beef is of the usual excellent quality.


I actually think Klein's advise was sound. Whether he should have
said it is another thing.

What exactly could be the negative of that rancher shooting the
animal and continuing with no one the wiser ? Are not all animals
checked when they are slaughtered ?

All I see is millions and millions of dollars down the drain in lost
sales, and for what ?

Was anyone safer because of the publicity of that one cow ?

Jim

[Black Jacques Shellaque]

In article <0Taab.36695$***@edtnps84>, ***@telus.net (foamy)
wrote:

> I actually think Klein's advise was sound. Whether he should have
> said it is another thing.
>
> What exactly could be the negative of that rancher shooting the
> animal and continuing with no one the wiser ? Are not all animals
> checked when they are slaughtered ?
>
> All I see is millions and millions of dollars down the drain in lost
> sales, and for what ?
>
> Was anyone safer because of the publicity of that one cow ?
>
> Jim

I disagree. Ultimately yes it has cost a lot up to this point, but what
would be the cost of a coverup? Suppose the whole issue were covered up
and then blown open a few years down the road by some clever
investigative reporter. What would the damage have been to the industry
then? Ultimately honesty has to be the way to go, it is cheaper in the
long run.

--
Failure is not an option, it comes bundled with Windows.

[foamy]

In article <spammers-***@newsnews
.telus.net>, Black Jacques Shellaque <***@are.vermin> wrote:

>I disagree. Ultimately yes it has cost a lot up to this point, but what
>would be the cost of a coverup? Suppose the whole issue were covered up
>and then blown open a few years down the road by some clever
>investigative reporter. What would the damage have been to the industry
>then? Ultimately honesty has to be the way to go, it is cheaper in the
>long run.

Well I'm not really sure of that. How would anyone have known it had
mad cow if the rancher shot it. Even he wouldn't have known, right ?

Can you clue me in as to the chronology of this. How and when
was it learned the cow did indeed have mad cow ?

Are all cattle tested at the time of slaughter ?

Thanks

Jim

[Chris M Tyler]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:45:57 GMT, ***@telus.net (foamy) wrote:

> In article <spammers-***@newsnews
> telus.net>, Black Jacques Shellaque <***@are.vermin> wrote:
>
> >I disagree. Ultimately yes it has cost a lot up to this point, but what
> >would be the cost of a coverup? Suppose the whole issue were covered up
> >and then blown open a few years down the road by some clever
> >investigative reporter. What would the damage have been to the industry
> >then? Ultimately honesty has to be the way to go, it is cheaper in the
> >long run.
>
> Well I'm not really sure of that. How would anyone have known it had
> mad cow if the rancher shot it. Even he wouldn't have known, right ?

True, but there are some symptoms for BSE which are quite evident in the late stages.
Keep in mind you can't test a living animal for BSE.

>
> Can you clue me in as to the chronology of this. How and when
> was it learned the cow did indeed have mad cow ?

I might not be totally accurate on date, but the essential story I am sure about. The
claim is that in January an Alberta farmer took the live cow to a rendering plant. I
believe the cow was previously rejected from being slaughter for direct human consumption.
In any event there was some knowledge that the animal was sick, of what seemingly no one
actually knew. So the rendering plant took the animal and processed it for feed. They
did, however, remove the head for testing. It took 4 months for the head to eventually be
test and that is when the BSE was confirmed.

The claim is that the animal never enter the food chain. The question is who's food
chain. It seems clear that the cow did not enter the initial food chain, however, it was
rendered and ended up in animal feed. Now animal feed with beef in it is not supposed to
be feed to cattle, but there is no actual law against this, just a warning to the
industry. (The dip shits in government may have since actually made it illegal since the
crisis.) The feed is said to be safe to feed to other animals like chicken, pigs, sheep
and household pets. It is a fact that BSE can jump species. This is why it is a danger
to us. So was the BSE beef really out of the human food chain? No not really. Unless we
quite eating pork, chicken, sheep and whatever else this feed is fed to.

>
> Are all cattle tested at the time of slaughter ?

No, only a very small per cent age. I not sure, but it's definitely less the 5 per cent.
Some slaughter houses in Alberta do not even have inspectors to do superficial
inspections. This is in line with the Alberta PC policy of letting the private sector
self-regulate.

As far as I know there has been no change whatsoever in the amount of testing done.

>
> Thanks
>
> Jim

[unknown]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:03:07 GMT, Chris M Tyler <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

>True, but there are some symptoms for BSE which are quite evident in the late stages.
>Keep in mind you can't test a living animal for BSE.

Not yet, but there are people working on it (for all the obvious reasons).

[g***@vcn.bc.ca]

Black Jacques Shellaque <***@are.vermin> wrote:
BS> > Was anyone safer because of the publicity of that one cow ?

BS> I disagree. Ultimately yes it has cost a lot up to this point, but what
BS> would be the cost of a coverup? Suppose the whole issue were covered up
BS> and then blown open a few years down the road by some clever
BS> investigative reporter. What would the damage have been to the industry
BS> then? Ultimately honesty has to be the way to go, it is cheaper in the
BS> long run.

some clever reporter, my ass!

More like a deliberate & timily leak TO some LUCKY reporter, when such a
blown-up expos‚ would serve someone's purposes!

Does anybody pay attention to how the media works in this country? :|

Your friend,

<+]::-{(} ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
Ask me how to connect with me in any of 5 Instant Messengers

(Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-

--
.
from gapope(at)vcn(dot)bc(dot)ca << Official Reply Address for Usenet Post
.

[Black Jacque Shellacque]

***@vcn.bc.ca wrote:

>
>some clever reporter, my ass!
>
>More like a deliberate & timily leak TO some LUCKY reporter, when such a
>blown-up expos‚ would serve someone's purposes!
>
>Does anybody pay attention to how the media works in this country? :|
>

You could be right Pope...the triple 'S' solution would demand that a
whole lot of people, ranchers etc participate in that kind of coverup.
All it takes is one whistleblower to blow the door open. In any event,
it is more proper to be honest about the whole thing, IMHO.

>
>

--
"The future will be better tomorrow."
-- Dan Quayle

[FatherGuido]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 04:53:16 GMT, ***@telus.net (foamy) wrote:

>I actually think Klein's advise was sound. Whether he should have
>said it is another thing.
>
>What exactly could be the negative of that rancher shooting the
>animal and continuing with no one the wiser ? Are not all animals
>checked when they are slaughtered ?
>
>All I see is millions and millions of dollars down the drain in lost
>sales, and for what ?
>
>Was anyone safer because of the publicity of that one cow ?
>
>Jim

As I see it, many other countries have learned a lesson here.
Don't tell the truth... shoot, shovel, and shut up.

How does that help the safety of Beef in the US or Japan? Well it
doesn't does it. I'd be suspicious of Beef from anywhere until they can
guarantee 100% testing of each slaughtered animal. This doesn't mean I'm
not going to eat Beef, but I'm sure everyone who eats Beef would feel
safer if each animal were inspected/tested.

Father Guido
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
I plan on living forever... so far, so good

[Chris M Tyler]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:12:27 GMT, FatherGuido <***@SNL.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 04:53:16 GMT, ***@telus.net (foamy) wrote:
>
> >I actually think Klein's advise was sound. Whether he should have
> >said it is another thing.
> >
> >What exactly could be the negative of that rancher shooting the
> >animal and continuing with no one the wiser ? Are not all animals
> >checked when they are slaughtered ?
> >
> >All I see is millions and millions of dollars down the drain in lost
> >sales, and for what ?
> >
> >Was anyone safer because of the publicity of that one cow ?
> >
> >Jim
>
> As I see it, many other countries have learned a lesson here.
> Don't tell the truth... shoot, shovel, and shut up.
>
> How does that help the safety of Beef in the US or Japan? Well it
> doesn't does it. I'd be suspicious of Beef from anywhere until they can
> guarantee 100% testing of each slaughtered animal. This doesn't mean I'm
> not going to eat Beef, but I'm sure everyone who eats Beef would feel
> safer if each animal were inspected/tested.

Exactly! What's Klein doing about that? Nothing.

> Father Guido
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
> I plan on living forever... so far, so good

[g***@vcn.bc.ca]

FatherGuido <***@SNL.com> wrote:
F> As I see it, many other countries have learned a lesson here.
F> Don't tell the truth... shoot, shovel, and shut up.
F>
F> How does that help the safety of Beef in the US or Japan? Well it
F> doesn't does it. I'd be suspicious of Beef from anywhere until they can
F> guarantee 100% testing of each slaughtered animal. This doesn't mean I'm
F> not going to eat Beef, but I'm sure everyone who eats Beef would feel
F> safer if each animal were inspected/tested.

If you want beef and want to know that it's good & clean/safe to eat, buy
kosher beef from a Jewish butcher!

(like Omnitsky's in Vancouver on Cambie (near 42nd)

Your friend,

<+]::-{(} ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
Ask me how to connect with me in any of 5 Instant Messengers

(Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-

--
.
from gapope(at)vcn(dot)bc(dot)ca << Official Reply Address for Usenet Post
.

[Chris M Tyler]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:04:21 +0000 (UTC), ***@vcn.bc.ca wrote:

> FatherGuido <***@SNL.com> wrote:
> F> As I see it, many other countries have learned a lesson here.
> F> Don't tell the truth... shoot, shovel, and shut up.
> F>
> F> How does that help the safety of Beef in the US or Japan? Well it
> F> doesn't does it. I'd be suspicious of Beef from anywhere until they can
> F> guarantee 100% testing of each slaughtered animal. This doesn't mean I'm
> F> not going to eat Beef, but I'm sure everyone who eats Beef would feel
> F> safer if each animal were inspected/tested.
>
> If you want beef and want to know that it's good & clean/safe to eat, buy
> kosher beef from a Jewish butcher!
>
> (like Omnitsky's in Vancouver on Cambie (near 42nd)

Why? Does he have his own lab for testing?

>
> Your friend,
>
> <+]::-{(} ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
> Ask me how to connect with me in any of 5 Instant Messengers
>
> (Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
> -=-
> In essentials, unity;
> In non-essentials, liberty;
> in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
> -=-

[Chris M Tyler]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 04:53:16 GMT, ***@telus.net (foamy) wrote:

> In article <spammers-***@newsnews.telus.net
> >, Black Jacques Shellaque <***@are.vermin> wrote:
>
> Just because
> >Klein put his foot in his mouth is no reason to accuse the ranchers et.
> >al of producing a bad product especially when all the science verifies
> >that Alberta beef is of the usual excellent quality.
>
>
> I actually think Klein's advise was sound. Whether he should have
> said it is another thing.

Ah, what part was the advice in?

>
> What exactly could be the negative of that rancher shooting the
> animal and continuing with no one the wiser ?

For one thing it's not ethical and I believe against the law.

> Are not all animals
> checked when they are slaughtered ?

Haven't you been keeping up with things? NO they are all tested. The fact the loud mouth
Ralph hasn't increased testing has been my point form day one on this whole BSE issue.

>
> All I see is millions and millions of dollars down the drain in lost
> sales, and for what ?

Because we have idiots running things. Hello!

>
> Was anyone safer because of the publicity of that one cow ?

Were we at risk without knowing? Are we still at risk? Testing has improved you know.
>
> Jim

[g***@vcn.bc.ca]

***@telus.net (foamy) wrote:
F> Was anyone safer because of the publicity of that one cow ?

Who says it was ever about public safety? :|

Publicity is most often used to generate profit (money &/or popular support)
for a particular person/entity with some sort of vested interest in
manipulating public opinion -- the only question is WHO??? :|

Normally one would expect Klein's vested interest to be in the
highly-profitable meat producers of his province, so why would he seemingly
work AGAINST such?!?!? :|

And, if it IS monetary profits, then from WHERE/WHOM???

Your friend,

<+]::-{(} ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
Ask me how to connect with me in any of 5 Instant Messengers

(Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-

--
.
from gapope(at)vcn(dot)bc(dot)ca << Official Reply Address for Usenet Post
.

[Stephen Jenuth]

In can.politics ***@vcn.bc.ca wrote:

> Publicity is most often used to generate profit (money &/or popular support)
> for a particular person/entity with some sort of vested interest in
> manipulating public opinion -- the only question is WHO??? :|
>
> Normally one would expect Klein's vested interest to be in the
> highly-profitable meat producers of his province, so why would he seemingly
> work AGAINST such?!?!? :|

I don't think Mr. Klein really cares about the farmers. But he knows
when to say something which his constituency will agree with, even
if he has to back off later, and even if it will cause long term
harm to people.

In this case, he made some remarks to the effect that (according to
the NY Times) the farmer who owned the cow "knew nothing about cattle
ranching" and that "I guess any self-respecting rancher would have shot,
shoveled and shut up".

He has said this thing in Alberta before, and not got into too much
trouble. And the good ol' boys of Alberta ranching are quite happy
to agree. http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-09-18-0007.html

Indeed, the rancher whose cow suffered from the disease is quoted
as saying "He's right about the comments he made about the Triple-S,
but hindsight's 20-20, eh? And he continued with "I mean, if a person
would have known then (I) could have saved a lot of trouble for a lot
of people, eh?"

Wonderfully, ranchers are said to agree.
http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-09-18-0006.html

But one of the things which they fail to recognize is that their
industry depends on me, other consumers, and foreign countries
trusting their product. If I get the idea, which is coming
through pretty loud and strong, that they are going to try and
slip infected cows through the system if they have no symthoms,
then I am going to wonder about buying a bunch of beef.

Personally, I like beef, but am concerned about its safety. I noted
that the cow which was found with BSE was discovered only through
luck -- it was sick from something else and taken off the food line
and sent into pet feed. It was not until months afterward that it
was tested for BSE, and then the manure hit the fan. Had it
not been sick on the day of slaughter, or had it not been sick
enough, it might have ended up on my plate.

That's scary, and should scare a lot of other countries when they
look at Canadian beef. Remarks like those of Mr. Klein, and the
ranchers do nothing to make me feel better.

Now the straight talking Mr. Klein may well have managed to get
some short-sighted farmers to applaud at his frankness. But if
I were a foreign country, I would be pretty leery at accepting
Canadian beef from other than the least risky cuts. I wouldn't
expect the border to be very open very soon.

But I doubt that Mr. Klein cares about the harm he caused the
industry. After all, he has my tax dollars to spend to bail
out the farmers.

Sometimes people get upset that positive solutions are not offered,
so I'll offer one. Test every cow for BSE. Sure its expensive
but the Europeans and Japanese do it. Sure it will likely discover
some BSE in otherwise healthy cows. But I will feel safer about
my beef, and won't really care if it costs me an extra $ 0.02 a
pound ($ 0.044/kg).

It would sure cost a lot less than bailing out ranchers for the
rest of the year. But it's not a vote getter.

--

Best regards,

Stephen Jenuth
(***@homacjen.ab.ca)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

pgp/gpg public key available at http://www.keyserver.net

[Robin]

"Stephen Jenuth" <***@horace.homacjen.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:gWnab.3282$***@pd7tw1no...
> In can.politics ***@vcn.bc.ca wrote:
>
> > Publicity is most often used to generate profit (money &/or popular
support)
> > for a particular person/entity with some sort of vested interest in
> > manipulating public opinion -- the only question is WHO??? :|
> >
> > Normally one would expect Klein's vested interest to be in the
> > highly-profitable meat producers of his province, so why would he
seemingly
> > work AGAINST such?!?!? :|
>
> I don't think Mr. Klein really cares about the farmers. But he knows
> when to say something which his constituency will agree with, even
> if he has to back off later, and even if it will cause long term
> harm to people.

I doubt you'd find an elected official in the Country that cares more about
the farmers.

>
> In this case, he made some remarks to the effect that (according to
> the NY Times) the farmer who owned the cow "knew nothing about cattle
> ranching" and that "I guess any self-respecting rancher would have shot,
> shoveled and shut up".
>
> He has said this thing in Alberta before, and not got into too much
> trouble. And the good ol' boys of Alberta ranching are quite happy
> to agree. http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-09-18-0007.html
>
> Indeed, the rancher whose cow suffered from the disease is quoted
> as saying "He's right about the comments he made about the Triple-S,
> but hindsight's 20-20, eh? And he continued with "I mean, if a person
> would have known then (I) could have saved a lot of trouble for a lot
> of people, eh?"
>
> Wonderfully, ranchers are said to agree.
> http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-09-18-0006.html
>
> But one of the things which they fail to recognize is that their
> industry depends on me, other consumers, and foreign countries
> trusting their product. If I get the idea, which is coming
> through pretty loud and strong, that they are going to try and
> slip infected cows through the system if they have no symthoms,
> then I am going to wonder about buying a bunch of beef.

Look, I don't agree with Ralph's comments, it was a stupid thing to say and
he should have known these things get taken out of control pretty fast by
the media sometimes. He should have stuck to his prepared comments.

That said, its pretty obvious to me he was kidding even though obviously
whoever reported it originally may not have understood the sarcasm involved.
I think he wanted to imply that America may well have as much BSE as Alberta
but perhaps they are little quicker on the draw - he of course was the
guest so he politely stayed away from pointing out we test more cows than
they do. If you listen to the clip you actually hear someone just beginning
to laugh right at the end of it so obviously someone "got it".

Ralph has enough people looking for him to screw up and frankly he has done
it in the past and it looks like he has done it again but there is no reason
a thinking person like yourself ought to get caught up in all the self
interested spin to a point where you suddenly have issues over the quality
of the beef. Believe me every Country in the world shoots a sick Cow once
the vet has said it won't get better - we call it humanitarianism. In
Alberta the vet also is required to order BSE tests if he suspects it may be
the problem - there is no shutting up.

>
> Personally, I like beef, but am concerned about its safety. I noted
> that the cow which was found with BSE was discovered only through
> luck -- it was sick from something else and taken off the food line
> and sent into pet feed. It was not until months afterward that it
> was tested for BSE, and then the manure hit the fan. Had it
> not been sick on the day of slaughter, or had it not been sick
> enough, it might have ended up on my plate.

No it wouldn't have, it was 6+ years old - we don't eat cows that old I
don't think. In fact at the 20-30 months age we eat them at they generally
don't yet express BSE.

>
> That's scary, and should scare a lot of other countries when they
> look at Canadian beef. Remarks like those of Mr. Klein, and the
> ranchers do nothing to make me feel better.
>
> Now the straight talking Mr. Klein may well have managed to get
> some short-sighted farmers to applaud at his frankness. But if
> I were a foreign country, I would be pretty leery at accepting
> Canadian beef from other than the least risky cuts. I wouldn't
> expect the border to be very open very soon.
> But I doubt that Mr. Klein cares about the harm he caused the
> industry. After all, he has my tax dollars to spend to bail
> out the farmers.
>
> Sometimes people get upset that positive solutions are not offered,
> so I'll offer one. Test every cow for BSE. Sure its expensive
> but the Europeans and Japanese do it. Sure it will likely discover
> some BSE in otherwise healthy cows. But I will feel safer about
> my beef, and won't really care if it costs me an extra $ 0.02 a
> pound ($ 0.044/kg).
>
> It would sure cost a lot less than bailing out ranchers for the
> rest of the year. But it's not a vote getter.

there is apparently a test out there that is newly available that can test a
living animal, if this is the case and it is reliable I think we ought to do
that, then we can remove them from the herds before any kind of breeding or
spreading can occur (yes I know it isn't contagious but you do this sort of
thing for optics - and to remove pre-disposed cows from the gene pool)

[Stephen Jenuth]

In can.politics Robin <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Stephen Jenuth" <***@horace.homacjen.ab.ca> wrote in message

>> I don't think Mr. Klein really cares about the farmers. But he knows
>> when to say something which his constituency will agree with, even
>> if he has to back off later, and even if it will cause long term
>> harm to people.
>
> I doubt you'd find an elected official in the Country that cares more about
> the farmers.

Come on. What has the guy actually done. Gone to the Washington
where he told the US government that we could hold out until
the end of August (curiously that's when the finally partially
lifted the ban), and now told US governors that we should have
hidden the problem.

No. All he really cares about is getting a good sound bite. Whether
it helps farmers at all doesn't really matter to him.

>> In this case, he made some remarks to the effect that (according to
>> the NY Times) the farmer who owned the cow "knew nothing about cattle
>> ranching" and that "I guess any self-respecting rancher would have shot,
>> shoveled and shut up".
>>
>> He has said this thing in Alberta before, and not got into too much
>> trouble. And the good ol' boys of Alberta ranching are quite happy
>> to agree. http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-09-18-0007.html
>>
>> Indeed, the rancher whose cow suffered from the disease is quoted
>> as saying "He's right about the comments he made about the Triple-S,
>> but hindsight's 20-20, eh? And he continued with "I mean, if a person
>> would have known then (I) could have saved a lot of trouble for a lot
>> of people, eh?"
>>
>> Wonderfully, ranchers are said to agree.
>> http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-09-18-0006.html
>>
>> But one of the things which they fail to recognize is that their
>> industry depends on me, other consumers, and foreign countries
>> trusting their product. If I get the idea, which is coming
>> through pretty loud and strong, that they are going to try and
>> slip infected cows through the system if they have no symthoms,
>> then I am going to wonder about buying a bunch of beef.
>
> Look, I don't agree with Ralph's comments, it was a stupid thing to say and
> he should have known these things get taken out of control pretty fast by
> the media sometimes. He should have stuck to his prepared comments.

I'm not sure it wasn't prepared. After all, this is not the first time
he's said this. Its just that this time he managed to get into the
NY Times. Good for Ralph. Bad for my pocketbook.

> That said, its pretty obvious to me he was kidding even though obviously
> whoever reported it originally may not have understood the sarcasm involved.

Curiously, reports in the Calgary Sun indicate that the ranchers do not
believe he was kidding. At least some of them actually support his
views, and even do so publicly.

> I think he wanted to imply that America may well have as much BSE as Alberta
> but perhaps they are little quicker on the draw - he of course was the
> guest so he politely stayed away from pointing out we test more cows than
> they do. If you listen to the clip you actually hear someone just beginning
> to laugh right at the end of it so obviously someone "got it".

Right...The problem is that Alberta ranchers haven't got it.

> Ralph has enough people looking for him to screw up and frankly he has done
> it in the past and it looks like he has done it again but there is no reason
> a thinking person like yourself ought to get caught up in all the self
> interested spin to a point where you suddenly have issues over the quality
> of the beef.

The issue isn't really me.

But other countries, that's a problem. They are likely not so kind
as me.

> Believe me every Country in the world shoots a sick Cow once
> the vet has said it won't get better - we call it humanitarianism. In
> Alberta the vet also is required to order BSE tests if he suspects it may be
> the problem - there is no shutting up.

Curiously, there was no suspicion in this case. But we checked it anyway.

As I pointed out, the question is whether their are healthy looking cows
which have BSE.

>> Personally, I like beef, but am concerned about its safety. I noted
>> that the cow which was found with BSE was discovered only through
>> luck -- it was sick from something else and taken off the food line
>> and sent into pet feed. It was not until months afterward that it
>> was tested for BSE, and then the manure hit the fan. Had it
>> not been sick on the day of slaughter, or had it not been sick
>> enough, it might have ended up on my plate.
>
> No it wouldn't have, it was 6+ years old - we don't eat cows that old I
> don't think. In fact at the 20-30 months age we eat them at they generally
> don't yet express BSE.

As I remember it was in the line at a human food plant when it was
taken off and made into pet food.

>> That's scary, and should scare a lot of other countries when they
>> look at Canadian beef. Remarks like those of Mr. Klein, and the
>> ranchers do nothing to make me feel better.
>>
>> Now the straight talking Mr. Klein may well have managed to get
>> some short-sighted farmers to applaud at his frankness. But if
>> I were a foreign country, I would be pretty leery at accepting
>> Canadian beef from other than the least risky cuts. I wouldn't
>> expect the border to be very open very soon.
>> But I doubt that Mr. Klein cares about the harm he caused the
>> industry. After all, he has my tax dollars to spend to bail
>> out the farmers.
>>
>> Sometimes people get upset that positive solutions are not offered,
>> so I'll offer one. Test every cow for BSE. Sure its expensive
>> but the Europeans and Japanese do it. Sure it will likely discover
>> some BSE in otherwise healthy cows. But I will feel safer about
>> my beef, and won't really care if it costs me an extra $ 0.02 a
>> pound ($ 0.044/kg).
>>
>> It would sure cost a lot less than bailing out ranchers for the
>> rest of the year. But it's not a vote getter.
>
> there is apparently a test out there that is newly available that can test a
> living animal, if this is the case and it is reliable I think we ought to do
> that, then we can remove them from the herds before any kind of breeding or
> spreading can occur (yes I know it isn't contagious but you do this sort of
> thing for optics - and to remove pre-disposed cows from the gene pool)

Optics is everything. We should test everything, and show the world the
beef we eat and export has nothing to be scared of.

Klein's triple-S proposal ought to be widely condemned, as should those
who support his stoneage view (even if it is a vote getter for him).

--

Best regards,

Stephen Jenuth
(***@homacjen.ab.ca)

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

pgp/gpg public key available at http://www.keyserver.net

[Robin]

"Stephen Jenuth" <***@horace.homacjen.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:Xqpab.3364$***@pd7tw1no...
> In can.politics Robin <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > "Stephen Jenuth" <***@horace.homacjen.ab.ca> wrote in message
>
> >> I don't think Mr. Klein really cares about the farmers. But he knows
> >> when to say something which his constituency will agree with, even
> >> if he has to back off later, and even if it will cause long term
> >> harm to people.
> >
> > I doubt you'd find an elected official in the Country that cares more
about
> > the farmers.
>
> Come on. What has the guy actually done. Gone to the Washington
> where he told the US government that we could hold out until
> the end of August (curiously that's when the finally partially
> lifted the ban), and now told US governors that we should have
> hidden the problem.
>
> No. All he really cares about is getting a good sound bite. Whether
> it helps farmers at all doesn't really matter to him.
>
> >> In this case, he made some remarks to the effect that (according to
> >> the NY Times) the farmer who owned the cow "knew nothing about cattle
> >> ranching" and that "I guess any self-respecting rancher would have
shot,
> >> shoveled and shut up".
> >>
> >> He has said this thing in Alberta before, and not got into too much
> >> trouble. And the good ol' boys of Alberta ranching are quite happy
> >> to agree. http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-09-18-0007.html
> >>
> >> Indeed, the rancher whose cow suffered from the disease is quoted
> >> as saying "He's right about the comments he made about the Triple-S,
> >> but hindsight's 20-20, eh? And he continued with "I mean, if a person
> >> would have known then (I) could have saved a lot of trouble for a lot
> >> of people, eh?"
> >>
> >> Wonderfully, ranchers are said to agree.
> >> http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-09-18-0006.html
> >>
> >> But one of the things which they fail to recognize is that their
> >> industry depends on me, other consumers, and foreign countries
> >> trusting their product. If I get the idea, which is coming
> >> through pretty loud and strong, that they are going to try and
> >> slip infected cows through the system if they have no symthoms,
> >> then I am going to wonder about buying a bunch of beef.
> >
> > Look, I don't agree with Ralph's comments, it was a stupid thing to say
and
> > he should have known these things get taken out of control pretty fast
by
> > the media sometimes. He should have stuck to his prepared comments.
>
> I'm not sure it wasn't prepared. After all, this is not the first time
> he's said this. Its just that this time he managed to get into the
> NY Times. Good for Ralph. Bad for my pocketbook.
>
> > That said, its pretty obvious to me he was kidding even though obviously
> > whoever reported it originally may not have understood the sarcasm
involved.
>
> Curiously, reports in the Calgary Sun indicate that the ranchers do not
> believe he was kidding. At least some of them actually support his
> views, and even do so publicly.
>
> > I think he wanted to imply that America may well have as much BSE as
Alberta
> > but perhaps they are little quicker on the draw - he of course was the
> > guest so he politely stayed away from pointing out we test more cows
than
> > they do. If you listen to the clip you actually hear someone just
beginning
> > to laugh right at the end of it so obviously someone "got it".
>
> Right...The problem is that Alberta ranchers haven't got it.
>
> > Ralph has enough people looking for him to screw up and frankly he has
done
> > it in the past and it looks like he has done it again but there is no
reason
> > a thinking person like yourself ought to get caught up in all the self
> > interested spin to a point where you suddenly have issues over the
quality
> > of the beef.
>
> The issue isn't really me.
>
> But other countries, that's a problem. They are likely not so kind
> as me.
>
> > Believe me every Country in the world shoots a sick Cow once
> > the vet has said it won't get better - we call it humanitarianism. In
> > Alberta the vet also is required to order BSE tests if he suspects it
may be
> > the problem - there is no shutting up.
>
> Curiously, there was no suspicion in this case. But we checked it anyway.
>
> As I pointed out, the question is whether their are healthy looking cows
> which have BSE.
>
> >> Personally, I like beef, but am concerned about its safety. I noted
> >> that the cow which was found with BSE was discovered only through
> >> luck -- it was sick from something else and taken off the food line
> >> and sent into pet feed. It was not until months afterward that it
> >> was tested for BSE, and then the manure hit the fan. Had it
> >> not been sick on the day of slaughter, or had it not been sick
> >> enough, it might have ended up on my plate.
> >
> > No it wouldn't have, it was 6+ years old - we don't eat cows that old I
> > don't think. In fact at the 20-30 months age we eat them at they
generally
> > don't yet express BSE.
>
> As I remember it was in the line at a human food plant when it was
> taken off and made into pet food.

Well thats what Ralph was referring to, most Ranchers are aware they aren't
even supposed to ship "Downer" cattle. Regardless, the cow looked sick and
was directed differently.

[Pham Nuwen]

Stephen Jenuth wrote:
> The issue isn't really me.

Oh, I'd say the issue is very much you Stephen. You have been looking to
get your pink card into politics for years. You are exactly the sort of
Liberal whiner, that slams Ralph at every corner, and yet never brings
any real solutions to the table. Any time you do take a position it is
only because it is contrary to the position of the PC's.

You have made a mockery of the ACLA. I for one hope to Eris on a regular
basis no one ever entrusts you with a public office.

--
/---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
I ***@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
\---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

[g***@vcn.bc.ca]

***@telus.net (foamy) wrote:
F> >would be the cost of a coverup? Suppose the whole issue were covered up
F> >and then blown open a few years down the road by some clever
F> >investigative reporter. What would the damage have been to the industry
F> >then? Ultimately honesty has to be the way to go, it is cheaper in the
F> >long run.
F>
F> Well I'm not really sure of that. How would anyone have known it had
F> mad cow if the rancher shot it. Even he wouldn't have known, right ?

I think there's something positive to be said for a farmer who is willing to
sacrifice potential profits just to be extra safe!

If there was CLEAR EVIDENCE the cow had Mad Cow, then the farmer's
responsibility, IMO, would be to test the carcass so that if it did have Mad
Cow Disease, there'd be a warning to then have the rest of the herd checked!

Of course, THAT would be a lot more sacrifice than we could expect! (ONE
suspect cow, sure, that's worth it, to avoid having the whole herd declared
zero profit/saleability, but good luck finding someone willing to risk the
entire herd, if the "3 S's" will do the trick!

Ultimately this is the question -- did the farmer shoot & bury one animal out
of consideration of public safety, or did he do it to avoid risk of the
possibility of AWARENESS that the entire herd MAY well have been exposed to Mad
Cow Disease?

(since truth is irrelevent to the Canadian public -- just give us a happy
PERCEPTION of truth and we'll shut up!)

Your friend,

<+]::-{(} ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
Ask me how to connect with me in any of 5 Instant Messengers

(Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-

--
.
from gapope(at)vcn(dot)bc(dot)ca << Official Reply Address for Usenet Post
.

[Chris M Tyler]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:04:25 +0000 (UTC), ***@vcn.bc.ca wrote:

> ***@telus.net (foamy) wrote:
> F> >would be the cost of a coverup? Suppose the whole issue were covered up
> F> >and then blown open a few years down the road by some clever
> F> >investigative reporter. What would the damage have been to the industry
> F> >then? Ultimately honesty has to be the way to go, it is cheaper in the
> F> >long run.
> F>
> F> Well I'm not really sure of that. How would anyone have known it had
> F> mad cow if the rancher shot it. Even he wouldn't have known, right ?
>
> I think there's something positive to be said for a farmer who is willing to
> sacrifice potential profits just to be extra safe!

Actually the farmer in question agrees with what Ralphie said in Montana.

>
> If there was CLEAR EVIDENCE the cow had Mad Cow, then the farmer's
> responsibility, IMO, would be to test the carcass so that if it did have Mad
> Cow Disease, there'd be a warning to then have the rest of the herd checked!

The farmer in question tried to have the cow slaughtered at first, but it was rejected,
according to the media.

>
> Of course, THAT would be a lot more sacrifice than we could expect! (ONE
> suspect cow, sure, that's worth it, to avoid having the whole herd declared
> zero profit/saleability, but good luck finding someone willing to risk the
> entire herd, if the "3 S's" will do the trick!
>
> Ultimately this is the question -- did the farmer shoot & bury one animal out
> of consideration of public safety, or did he do it to avoid risk of the
> possibility of AWARENESS that the entire herd MAY well have been exposed to Mad
> Cow Disease?

Good question!

>
> (since truth is irrelevent to the Canadian public -- just give us a happy
> PERCEPTION of truth and we'll shut up!)

No where is this more true then in the Quebec of the West.

>
> Your friend,
>
> <+]::-{(} ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
> Ask me how to connect with me in any of 5 Instant Messengers
>
> (Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
> -=-
> In essentials, unity;
> In non-essentials, liberty;
> in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
> -=-

[g***@vcn.bc.ca]

Black Jacques Shellaque <***@are.vermin> wrote:
BS> In article <Av2ab.3167$***@localhost>,
BS> "`Top Poster`" <***@Poster.com> wrote:
BS>
BS> > Sharxs this is why many people stoped eating beef a long time ago, it ca
BS> > not be trusted, it is not safe
BS>
BS>
BS> First, I am somewhat surprised that you are able to type something
BS> original besides your usual bandwidth wasting "WANKER" posts. Second,
BS> beef is safe. They have done the science, they have done the testing.
BS> Has there been any case of anyone in Alberta...or Canada for that matter
BS> that has caught spongiform encephalopathy from a hamburger or a steak
BS> either recently or over the last several years? No. Just because
BS> Klein put his foot in his mouth is no reason to accuse the ranchers et.
BS> al of producing a bad product especially when all the science verifies
BS> that Alberta beef is of the usual excellent quality.

He didn't say that all beef was BAD -- just that it CANNOT BE TRUSTED!!!

This is quite sensible -- the beef industry is not there to provide a good &
safe product, primarily -- primarily, they are there to make their PROFITS!!

This is why the cows were fed ground up BEEF as part of their diet -- waste
not is a key axiom for saving/making money! Of course, the very fact that
cows are, by nature, HERBIVEROUS, and NOT meat eaters, was never a
consideration that there MIGHT be dangers in playing God with Nature!

Your friend,

<+]::-{(} ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
Ask me how to connect with me in any of 5 Instant Messengers

(Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-

--
.
from gapope(at)vcn(dot)bc(dot)ca << Official Reply Address for Usenet Post
.

[BigC]

He was just joking

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:55:00 GMT, "Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com>
wrote:

>Ralph Klein shoots off his stupid mouth again!!!...Ralph emabarrasses Canada
>with stupid remarks at Governor's Meeting...(Full story follows)......With
>Ralph's wisdom on cover ups it brings to mind several during his
>premiership......"SHOOT, SHOVEL, SHUT UP"...Has anyone seen the COOS since
>they disappeared after it was revealed they had been giving Ralph and
>Colleen all sorts of gifts with the money they stole from Bank Of Montreal?
>
>Maybe Ralph actually takes his own advice. With his free stock deal there
>were too many to Shoot , Shovel, and Shut up about so he did what he
>normally does...HE LIES..the fat little prick.
>
>
>
>
>==============================================
>'Shoot, shovel, shut up'
>Premier's words defended as 'ironic' -- not advice to break the law
>
>Kelly Cryderman and Jim Farrell, Journal Staff Writers
>Edmonton Journal
>
>
>Premier Ralph Klein has suggested that any "self-respecting rancher" would
>have killed and buried the northern Alberta animal stricken with mad cow
>disease, instead of taking it to a slaughterhouse.
>
>"It all came about through the discovery of a single, isolated case of mad
>cow disease in one Alberta cow on May 20," Klein told state governors and
>his fellow western premiers at the Western Governors' Association meeting
>Sunday in Big Sky, Montana.
>
>"This was in northern Alberta, and the farmer was a -- I think he was a
>Louisiana fish-farmer -- who knew nothing about cattle ranching. And I guess
>any self-respecting rancher would have shot, shovelled and shut up, but he
>didn't do that. Instead he took it an abattoir and it was discovered after
>testing in both Winnipeg and the U.K. that this cow, this older cow, had mad
>cow disease."
>
>On a tape of speech obtained from a National Public Radio affiliate, Klein
>goes on to speak about the economic devastation the one diseased cow caused
>to the Canadian economy, along with his frustration over international
>border closures. He asked for the governors' assistance in getting the
>border fully re-opened.
>
>The premier was unavailable for comment Tuesday, but his office said Klein
>had been speaking sarcastically.
>
>Klein's spokesman Jim Law said the premier was not advocating the practise
>of shoot, shovel and shut up. "We have protocols in place, and we want the
>animals -- if any occur -- to be found."
>
>But Alberta Liberal Leader Ken Nicol called Klein's remarks the "most
>damaging thing that has been said by anybody" since Canada's single case of
>bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) came to light May 20.
>
>"It shows a total disrespect for what we have to do to sustain an
>international image of quality in our beef products," Nicol said. "A person
>out there representing our province should never, even in jest, had said
>that."
>
>Nicol added, "if it ever came to light that we did what the premier
>suggested, our industry would be destroyed."
>
>Canadian beef was banned by almost three dozen countries in late May when it
>was made public that a single case of BSE had been found in northern
>Alberta. The animal came from Marwyn Peaster's farm near Wanham, Alta.
>Peaster had moved to Alberta from Mississippi, and had once raised catfish.
>
>Although the U.S. is now accepting some cuts of beef, borders remain closed
>to many beef cuts and live cattle -- costing the Canadian industry millions
>of dollars each day.
>
>Peter Clark, a trade consultant with an expertise in agriculture, said he
>hopes the premier was speaking sarcastically.
>
>"I've done work for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association before, and these
>cattlemen are as honest as the day is long," Clark said. "They have an
>interest in maintaining the system."
>
>Klein's comments do not help the situation, Clark said. "Here's the leader
>of our provincial government suggesting that it's alright or it's smart to
>cover up things like this. And that's certainly not government policy, and
>it's not a policy that ranchers in Alberta, I sure, would advocate either.
>
>"I'm sure that a lot of (ranchers) wish that it had never come to light, but
>it did. And the system is there to protect us, and to protect our
>reputation."
>
>Ron Wooddisse, president of the Ontario Cattlemen's Association, said Klein
>was likely trying to make the point that sick animals should not go into the
>food chain. Cattle should be tested and BSE should not be hidden, he said,
>but many farmers do feel frustrated that millions has been lost because of
>one animal.
>
>"What's the payback for being the boy scout?" Wooddisse said has been the
>concern voiced. "All we've done is got kicked in the teeth."
>
>Cindy McCreath, a spokeswoman for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association,
>would not comment on Klein's remarks. But she said that the Canadian, U.S.
>and Mexican governments, along with cattle industry organizations, have
>asked the international body which regulates animal health, the OIE, to
>introduce less punitive standards for countries that have strong safety
>protocols in place but still end up with one case of mad cow disease.
>
>As part of their arguments, they say having a policy in place that leads to
>such a quick closing of borders could push some farmers to try to hide BSE
>cases.
>
>In July, federal cabinet minister Ralph Goodale said the "unjustifiable" way
>trade partners have dealt with Canada due to its one case of mad cow disease
>will encourage other countries to "shoot, shovel and shut up" when dealing
>with infected animals.
>
>
>

[Geraldo]

We didn't vote for a comedian to be premiere...if we had it sure wouldn't
have been that fat little creep....He should stick to seriously solving the
BSE problem instead of making it worse...Some countries will not take his
irresponsible comments as a joke and they will have the impression Canada
will do this in the future or has done this in the past...The whole
industry will suffer as a result of his irresponsible comments....All other
countries selling beef will seize this opportunity to seal the market for
good and shut out Canada permanently.

Maybe Ralph should follow up anything coming out of his mouth with..."Im
Just Kidding"...like on Saturday Night Live.
Or better yet think before speaking...He has done this so many times before
it is definitely his personality to be an arrogant fool and a liar.....This
one will cost beef producers billions...Ralph's legacy is "he destroyed a
faltering industry, that is a major sector of Alberta, with stupid
comments".

"BigC" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> He was just joking
>
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:55:00 GMT, "Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Ralph Klein shoots off his stupid mouth again!!!...Ralph emabarrasses
Canada
> >with stupid remarks at Governor's Meeting...(Full story
follows)......With
> >Ralph's wisdom on cover ups it brings to mind several during his
> >premiership......"SHOOT, SHOVEL, SHUT UP"...Has anyone seen the COOS
since
> >they disappeared after it was revealed they had been giving Ralph and
> >Colleen all sorts of gifts with the money they stole from Bank Of
Montreal?
> >
> >Maybe Ralph actually takes his own advice. With his free stock deal there
> >were too many to Shoot , Shovel, and Shut up about so he did what he
> >normally does...HE LIES..the fat little prick.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >==============================================
> >'Shoot, shovel, shut up'
> >Premier's words defended as 'ironic' -- not advice to break the law
> >
> >Kelly Cryderman and Jim Farrell, Journal Staff Writers
> >Edmonton Journal
> >
> >
> >Premier Ralph Klein has suggested that any "self-respecting rancher"
would
> >have killed and buried the northern Alberta animal stricken with mad cow
> >disease, instead of taking it to a slaughterhouse.
> >
> >"It all came about through the discovery of a single, isolated case of
mad
> >cow disease in one Alberta cow on May 20," Klein told state governors and
> >his fellow western premiers at the Western Governors' Association meeting
> >Sunday in Big Sky, Montana.
> >
> >"This was in northern Alberta, and the farmer was a -- I think he was a
> >Louisiana fish-farmer -- who knew nothing about cattle ranching. And I
guess
> >any self-respecting rancher would have shot, shovelled and shut up, but
he
> >didn't do that. Instead he took it an abattoir and it was discovered
after
> >testing in both Winnipeg and the U.K. that this cow, this older cow, had
mad
> >cow disease."
> >
> >On a tape of speech obtained from a National Public Radio affiliate,
Klein
> >goes on to speak about the economic devastation the one diseased cow
caused
> >to the Canadian economy, along with his frustration over international
> >border closures. He asked for the governors' assistance in getting the
> >border fully re-opened.
> >
> >The premier was unavailable for comment Tuesday, but his office said
Klein
> >had been speaking sarcastically.
> >
> >Klein's spokesman Jim Law said the premier was not advocating the
practise
> >of shoot, shovel and shut up. "We have protocols in place, and we want
the
> >animals -- if any occur -- to be found."
> >
> >But Alberta Liberal Leader Ken Nicol called Klein's remarks the "most
> >damaging thing that has been said by anybody" since Canada's single case
of
> >bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) came to light May 20.
> >
> >"It shows a total disrespect for what we have to do to sustain an
> >international image of quality in our beef products," Nicol said. "A
person
> >out there representing our province should never, even in jest, had said
> >that."
> >
> >Nicol added, "if it ever came to light that we did what the premier
> >suggested, our industry would be destroyed."
> >
> >Canadian beef was banned by almost three dozen countries in late May when
it
> >was made public that a single case of BSE had been found in northern
> >Alberta. The animal came from Marwyn Peaster's farm near Wanham, Alta.
> >Peaster had moved to Alberta from Mississippi, and had once raised
catfish.
> >
> >Although the U.S. is now accepting some cuts of beef, borders remain
closed
> >to many beef cuts and live cattle -- costing the Canadian industry
millions
> >of dollars each day.
> >
> >Peter Clark, a trade consultant with an expertise in agriculture, said he
> >hopes the premier was speaking sarcastically.
> >
> >"I've done work for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association before, and
these
> >cattlemen are as honest as the day is long," Clark said. "They have an
> >interest in maintaining the system."
> >
> >Klein's comments do not help the situation, Clark said. "Here's the
leader
> >of our provincial government suggesting that it's alright or it's smart
to
> >cover up things like this. And that's certainly not government policy,
and
> >it's not a policy that ranchers in Alberta, I sure, would advocate
either.
> >
> >"I'm sure that a lot of (ranchers) wish that it had never come to light,
but
> >it did. And the system is there to protect us, and to protect our
> >reputation."
> >
> >Ron Wooddisse, president of the Ontario Cattlemen's Association, said
Klein
> >was likely trying to make the point that sick animals should not go into
the
> >food chain. Cattle should be tested and BSE should not be hidden, he
said,
> >but many farmers do feel frustrated that millions has been lost because
of
> >one animal.
> >
> >"What's the payback for being the boy scout?" Wooddisse said has been the
> >concern voiced. "All we've done is got kicked in the teeth."
> >
> >Cindy McCreath, a spokeswoman for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association,
> >would not comment on Klein's remarks. But she said that the Canadian,
U.S.
> >and Mexican governments, along with cattle industry organizations, have
> >asked the international body which regulates animal health, the OIE, to
> >introduce less punitive standards for countries that have strong safety
> >protocols in place but still end up with one case of mad cow disease.
> >
> >As part of their arguments, they say having a policy in place that leads
to
> >such a quick closing of borders could push some farmers to try to hide
BSE
> >cases.
> >
> >In July, federal cabinet minister Ralph Goodale said the "unjustifiable"
way
> >trade partners have dealt with Canada due to its one case of mad cow
disease
> >will encourage other countries to "shoot, shovel and shut up" when
dealing
> >with infected animals.
> >
> >
> >
>

[Pham Nuwen]

Geraldo wrote:
> We didn't vote for a comedian to be premiere...if we had it sure wouldn't
> have been that fat little creep...

I can expect to see your name on the ballot next time, then can I?

I don't think you are in the slightest interested in the issues, you
like every other liberal in this province for the last twenty years only
wants to cut the Conservatives down. Why not present some positions of
what you would do for a change, instead of just knocking what Ralph
does, no matter what he does.

The Liberals will never win an election in this province as long as they
continue to play naysayer, and don't have any real positions, or
candidates to say how they could do better.

--
/---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
I ***@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
\---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

[Geraldo]

I'm not a Liberal....Party politics is silly...It's the people in charge
that tell the lifetime bureaucrats how to do what they have been doing their
entire careers....Ralph is a grade 10 dropout, bigmouthed, fool,...any
imbecile could run this province with a budget surplus as energy prices are
bouncing off the ceiling....Even though we have the largest budget surpluses
in history...education and health programs still suffer...why?..Now we have
an idiot scuttling a major industry with irresponsible and stupid
comments....How bad will things get when we don't have budget surpluses?


"Pham Nuwen" <***@libertydice.org> wrote in message
news:***@libertydice.org...
> Geraldo wrote:
> > We didn't vote for a comedian to be premiere...if we had it sure
wouldn't
> > have been that fat little creep...
>
> I can expect to see your name on the ballot next time, then can I?
>
> I don't think you are in the slightest interested in the issues, you
> like every other liberal in this province for the last twenty years only
> wants to cut the Conservatives down. Why not present some positions of
> what you would do for a change, instead of just knocking what Ralph
> does, no matter what he does.
>
> The Liberals will never win an election in this province as long as they
> continue to play naysayer, and don't have any real positions, or
> candidates to say how they could do better.
>
> --
> /---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
> I ***@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
> I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
> I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
> \---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/
>

[Pham Nuwen]

Geraldo wrote:

> I'm not a Liberal....Party politics is silly...It's the people in charge
> that tell the lifetime bureaucrats how to do what they have been doing their
> entire careers....Ralph is a grade 10 dropout, bigmouthed, fool,...any
> imbecile could run this province with a budget surplus as energy prices are
> bouncing off the ceiling....Even though we have the largest budget surpluses
> in history...education and health programs still suffer...why?..Now we have
> an idiot scuttling a major industry with irresponsible and stupid
> comments....How bad will things get when we don't have budget surpluses?

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.....

Fuck you really are nothing but a big cry baby whiner. Like I said, put
up, or shut up.


--
/---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
I ***@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
\---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

[Geraldo]

You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy lets
you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
country...Go back home zipperhead.

"Pham Nuwen" <***@libertydice.org> wrote in message
news:***@libertydice.org...
> Geraldo wrote:
>
> > I'm not a Liberal....Party politics is silly...It's the people in charge
> > that tell the lifetime bureaucrats how to do what they have been doing
their
> > entire careers....Ralph is a grade 10 dropout, bigmouthed, fool,...any
> > imbecile could run this province with a budget surplus as energy prices
are
> > bouncing off the ceiling....Even though we have the largest budget
surpluses
> > in history...education and health programs still suffer...why?..Now we
have
> > an idiot scuttling a major industry with irresponsible and stupid
> > comments....How bad will things get when we don't have budget surpluses?
>
> Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.....
>
> Fuck you really are nothing but a big cry baby whiner. Like I said, put
> up, or shut up.
>
>
> --
> /---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
> I ***@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
> I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
> I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
> \---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/
>

[Pham Nuwen]

Geraldo wrote:

> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy lets
> you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
> country...Go back home zipperhead.

Pffftt!!! Fuck ok, I take it back you aren't just a crybaby whiner, you
are a Fucking TWIT too.

1) Who the fuck cares where you were born, an ignorant fuck is an
ignorant fuck no matter where you were sired.
2) WTF is a DP???
3) So far you are the one avoiding putting forward a solution, so I can
only guess you are full of crap.
4) "asian", how the fuck do you come to the conclusion I'm Asian? Ever
hear of an alias ya, racist fucktard.
5) "asian criminals", let me guess you will be the first to say "but I'm
not racist".
6) I am home.

--
/---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
I ***@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
\---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

[Geraldo]

...And you quote Ben Franklin and the positives of trade...While how does
Ralph's comment help trade asshole???..Is that issue to complicated for you
zipperhead???....Nations are ruined by isolation and that what Ralph is
doing running his stupid mouth again....watch the beef industry crater now
for 20 years and then maybe you'll figure it out.

"Pham Nuwen" <***@libertydice.org> wrote in message
news:***@libertydice.org... II No nation was ever ruined by
trade, even seemingly the most disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
> \---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/
>

[Pham Nuwen]

Geraldo wrote:

> ...And you quote Ben Franklin and the positives of trade...While how does
> Ralph's comment help trade asshole???..Is that issue to complicated for you
> zipperhead???....Nations are ruined by isolation and that what Ralph is
> doing running his stupid mouth again....watch the beef industry crater now
> for 20 years and then maybe you'll figure it out.

First are you reading impaired? If you are going to use the Franklin
quote to make a point, at least read what it fucking says.

Second, obviously your solution is EXACTLY what Klein joked about. Even
worse you don't want to shoot,shovel,and shut up. You just want them to
shut up and keep shipping Beef no matter what it contains. Oh ya, that's
real responsible, ya fucking twit.

--
/---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
I ***@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
\---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

[News]

"Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote in message
news:MS3ab.971489$***@news2.calgary.shaw.ca...
> ...And you quote Ben Franklin and the positives of trade...While how does
> Ralph's comment help trade asshole???..Is that issue to complicated for
you
> zipperhead???....Nations are ruined by isolation

I take it you've never spent much time in England. It's the most
self-sufficient country I've ever seen, and doing quite well. Germany is
another strong example. Isolationism isn't a good policy, but it doesn't
destroy countries. Ever hear of China?

and that what Ralph is
> doing running his stupid mouth again....watch the beef industry crater now
> for 20 years and then maybe you'll figure it out.

You're absolutely right. Because we all know that the entire world is
going to stop eating beef because of the comments of a Premier they've never
heard of. (In a province they probably can't find on a map) Thanks to
ExpressVu (Great product by the way) I get news from all over North America.
I'll tell you what, this was heavily reported in Calgary/Edmonton - but I
didn't see *anything* from Winnipeg or New York. (Yes, I know I watch way
too much news)

[a***@salmahayeksknockers.edu]

In calgary.general Pham Nuwen <***@libertydice.org> wrote:

> 2) WTF is a DP???

==Displaced Person==Refugee.



--
.............................................................................

Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt.

.............................................................................
***@m3m3t1ccand1ru.com http://www.memeticcandiru.com

[Chris M Tyler]

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:42:07 GMT, Pham Nuwen <***@libertydice.org> wrote:

> Geraldo wrote:
>
> > You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> > DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy lets
> > you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
> > country...Go back home zipperhead.
>
> Pffftt!!! Fuck ok, I take it back you aren't just a crybaby whiner, you
> are a Fucking TWIT too.
>
> 1) Who the fuck cares where you were born, an ignorant fuck is an
> ignorant fuck no matter where you were sired.

Ok so you qualify then.

> 2) WTF is a DP???

It a term from WWII. Look it up smart ass.

> 3) So far you are the one avoiding putting forward a solution, so I can
> only guess you are full of crap.

What's your solution. Better yet, what is the Klein government solution (they are the
government you know) other stupid comments and whining about the east so dumb pricks like
you will be distracted.

> 4) "asian", how the fuck do you come to the conclusion I'm Asian? Ever
> hear of an alias ya, racist fucktard.

Point taken.

> 5) "asian criminals", let me guess you will be the first to say "but I'm
> not racist".

> 6) I am home.

Exactly what I figured.

If anyone is a DP it might be me. I was born here, but spent many years in eastern
Canada. My conclusion, I think not all, but the majority of Alberta voters are fucked in
the head.

It has been publically discuss many times and agreed to that Klein is popular because he
embodies the image and thinking of most Albertans. Well, frankly I am insulted. And, if
it weren't true you'd be insulted too.

[News]

"Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote in message
news:ZM2ab.167835$***@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy lets
> you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
> country...Go back home zipperhead.

You may think he knows "...shit about issues", but it's clear you know
even less.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812536355/103-2006328-9287806?v=glance

Pham Nuwen is a character from a Science Fiction book. Attaboy, keep
sticking your foot in your mouth - your credibility just hit the
negatives.....

[CalgaryBill]

"Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote in message
news:ZM2ab.167835$***@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy
lets
> you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
> country...Go back home zipperhead.
>
> "Pham Nuwen" <***@libertydice.org> wrote in message
> news:***@libertydice.org...
> > Geraldo wrote:
What in the world is with you? You speak about 'we' didn't elect the
PCs in an earlier post ... so who did? I say that you're full of shit
on that one, under the principles of a representative democracy (which
is what our system is). And BTW, Pham is not an Asian (look at
www.users.zetnet.co.uk/iplus/nonfiction/deepness.htm if you want to gain
some knowledge) .... shows that you can't understand anything about
aliases nor the Usenet ... makes one question your ability to understand
in general. And of course your outright (misplaced) racism shows that
you qualify as the dregs of humanity.

If you're opposed to the PCs, then you are probably okay with the NDP,
or the Liberals ... neither of which will form an Albertan government in
the near future.

[foamy]

In article <8B4ab.159$***@pd7tw2no>,
"CalgaryBill" <***@shaw.ca> wrote:

>What in the world is with you? You speak about 'we' didn't elect the
>PCs in an earlier post ... so who did? I say that you're full of shit
>on that one, under the principles of a representative democracy (which
>is what our system is).

Sorry friend, we do not have a Representative Democracy [ USA ], Canada
is a Parliamentary Democracy. Big difference.

Jim

[Robert Weldon]

"foamy" <***@telus.net> wrote in message
news:mI4ab.9533$***@news2.telusplanet.net...
> In article <8B4ab.159$***@pd7tw2no>,
> "CalgaryBill" <***@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> >What in the world is with you? You speak about 'we' didn't elect the
> >PCs in an earlier post ... so who did? I say that you're full of shit
> >on that one, under the principles of a representative democracy (which
> >is what our system is).
>
> Sorry friend, we do not have a Representative Democracy [ USA ], Canada
> is a Parliamentary Democracy. Big difference.
>
> Jim

Actually, in practice, it is an elected dictatorship.

[foamy]

In article <L36ab.8625$***@pd7tw3no>,
"Robert Weldon" <***@jrpspamblock.ca> wrote:

>Actually, in practice, it is an elected dictatorship.


Absolutely true. :-)

Jim

[Black Jacques Shellaque]

In article <S56ab.9712$***@news2.telusplanet.net>,
***@telus.net (foamy) wrote:

> In article <L36ab.8625$***@pd7tw3no>,
> "Robert Weldon" <***@jrpspamblock.ca> wrote:
>
> >Actually, in practice, it is an elected dictatorship.
>
>
> Absolutely true. :-)
>
> Jim

Amazing how the Klein whiners point the finger at the provincial PC's
but do not say one word regarding our federal liberal dictatorship.
Bunch of hypocrites.

--
Failure is not an option, it comes bundled with Windows.

[Chris M Tyler]

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:27:46 GMT, ***@telus.net (foamy) wrote:

> In article <L36ab.8625$***@pd7tw3no>,
> "Robert Weldon" <***@jrpspamblock.ca> wrote:
>
> >Actually, in practice, it is an elected dictatorship.
>
>
> Absolutely true. :-)
>
> Jim

Yep, it's called the Golden Rule. The people with the gold make the rules.

[Chris M Tyler]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 00:02:48 GMT, ***@analyst.com (Political Analyst) wrote:

> In article <S56ab.9712$***@news2.telusplanet.net>, ***@telus.net
> says...
> >
> >In article <L36ab.8625$***@pd7tw3no>,
> >"Robert Weldon" <***@jrpspamblock.ca> wrote:
> >
> >>Actually, in practice, it is an elected dictatorship.
> >
> >
> >Absolutely true. :-)
>
> A small group of individuals make the decisions in any organization, public or
> private. Too bad the unwashed masses are too ignorant to realize that's the
> way it has to be. But then if they DID realize it, it probably wouldn't have
> to be that way! Ironic, isn't it.

I guess we get the government we deserve. Cynical , but there is some truth in that.
That's why when I criticize Klein, I include the dumb asses that think he is great.
Whenever people worship a leader their in for trouble.

[Kelly Eugene]

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:25:31 GMT, "Robert Weldon"
<***@jrpspamblock.ca> wrote:

>"foamy" <***@telus.net> wrote in message
>news:mI4ab.9533$***@news2.telusplanet.net...
>> In article <8B4ab.159$***@pd7tw2no>,
>> "CalgaryBill" <***@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>> >What in the world is with you? You speak about 'we' didn't elect the
>> >PCs in an earlier post ... so who did? I say that you're full of shit
>> >on that one, under the principles of a representative democracy (which
>> >is what our system is).
>>
>> Sorry friend, we do not have a Representative Democracy [ USA ], Canada
>> is a Parliamentary Democracy. Big difference.
>>
>> Jim
>
>Actually, in practice, it is an elected dictatorship.
>
>

No such thing.



"Ask me whether the glass is half full or half empty,
and I will ask you how it can be half full without
being half empty at the same time"

Kelly Eugene

[Jon Pike]

***@netidea.com (Kelly Eugene) wrote in news:3f694978.7463937
@news.netidea.com:

>>Actually, in practice, it is an elected dictatorship.
>>
>>
>
> No such thing.

Ever hear of hitler, stalin, or mao tse tung? They were all elected.

> "Ask me whether the glass is half full or half empty,
> and I will ask you how it can be half full without
> being half empty at the same time"
>
> Kelly Eugene

I'd like to see how you figure that one works.

--
http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=moosespet

[TheFifthBeatle]

"Jon Pike" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@24.71.223.159...
> ***@netidea.com (Kelly Eugene) wrote in news:3f694978.7463937
> @news.netidea.com:
>
> >>Actually, in practice, it is an elected dictatorship.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > No such thing.
>
> Ever hear of hitler, stalin, or mao tse tung? They were all elected.
>

Well, when there is only one candidate it's kind of easy to win.

[unknown]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:58:24 GMT, ***@netidea.com (Kelly Eugene) wrote:


>>Actually, in practice, it is an elected dictatorship.
>
>No such thing.
>

It desribes our 'democracy' fairly closely. Once the scoundrel has been elected,
the views and wishes of the voters become irrelevant, and the unelected Party
activists and bureaucracy can do pretty much as they please.

[a***@salmahayeksknockers.edu]

In calgary.general Geraldo <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote:
> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> DP!!!...

YA SHUT UP PHAM YOU STUPID SLANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111


--
.............................................................................

Courage means going against majority opinion in the name of truth.

-Vaclav Havel

.............................................................................
***@m3m3t1ccand1ru.com http://www.memeticcandiru.com

[Phil Mattaleven]

Gee, I ALMOST was going to sympathize with a couple of your points until you
spewed your racist/biggoted moronic mindless statements (statements that do
FAR more damage to this province's stature than any stupid comments from any
politician), therefore your credibility is now regulated down to zero-
*plonk*


"Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote in message
news:ZM2ab.167835$***@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy lets
> you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
> country...Go back home zipperhead.
>
> "Pham Nuwen" <***@libertydice.org> wrote in message
> news:***@libertydice.org...
> > Geraldo wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not a Liberal....Party politics is silly...It's the people in
charge
> > > that tell the lifetime bureaucrats how to do what they have been doing
> their
> > > entire careers....Ralph is a grade 10 dropout, bigmouthed, fool,...any
> > > imbecile could run this province with a budget surplus as energy
prices
> are
> > > bouncing off the ceiling....Even though we have the largest budget
> surpluses
> > > in history...education and health programs still suffer...why?..Now we
> have
> > > an idiot scuttling a major industry with irresponsible and stupid
> > > comments....How bad will things get when we don't have budget
surpluses?
> >
> > Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.....
> >
> > Fuck you really are nothing but a big cry baby whiner. Like I said, put
> > up, or shut up.
> >
> >
> > --
> > /---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
> > I ***@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
> > I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
> > I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
> > \---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/
> >
>
>

[Street Cred]

In article <pE5ab.215$***@pd7tw2no>, ***@shaw.ca says...
>
>Gee, I ALMOST was going to sympathize with a couple of your points until you
>spewed your racist/biggoted moronic mindless statements (statements that do
>FAR more damage to this province's stature than any stupid comments from any
>politician), therefore your credibility is now regulated down to zero-
>*plonk*
>

But "Geraldo's" credibility has absolutely nothing to do with Ralph Klein one
way or another. Make up your own mind on this topic regardless of how you feel
about the guy who cut & pasted the newspaper article. I don't think he was
looking for your sympathy in the first place.

>(statements that do
>FAR more damage to this province's stature than any stupid comments from any
>politician),

If the entire world knew what goes on in these newsgroups the entire world
would think Canada is the most pathetic place on earth. Thankfully the entire
world doesn't, but they sure get more exposure to Ralph Klein's soundbytes than
the ramblings of a moron on calgary.general.

I think it's safe to say you're looking for any excuse to support Klein, and
you're seizing on Geraldo's racist comments to do so, which as I've
demonstrated, are completely unconnected.

[Chris M Tyler]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 00:00:03 GMT, ***@cred.com (Street Cred) wrote:

> In article <pE5ab.215$***@pd7tw2no>, ***@shaw.ca says...
> >
> >Gee, I ALMOST was going to sympathize with a couple of your points until you
> >spewed your racist/biggoted moronic mindless statements (statements that do
> >FAR more damage to this province's stature than any stupid comments from any
> >politician), therefore your credibility is now regulated down to zero-
> >*plonk*
> >
>
> But "Geraldo's" credibility has absolutely nothing to do with Ralph Klein one
> way or another. Make up your own mind on this topic regardless of how you feel
> about the guy who cut & pasted the newspaper article. I don't think he was
> looking for your sympathy in the first place.
>
> >(statements that do
> >FAR more damage to this province's stature than any stupid comments from any
> >politician),
>
> If the entire world knew what goes on in these newsgroups the entire world
> would think Canada is the most pathetic place on earth. Thankfully the entire
> world doesn't, but they sure get more exposure to Ralph Klein's soundbytes than
> the ramblings of a moron on calgary.general.
>
> I think it's safe to say you're looking for any excuse to support Klein, and
> you're seizing on Geraldo's racist comments to do so, which as I've
> demonstrated, are completely unconnected.

Agreed! But, racism clouds vision and this we do not need.

[The #1 Sharxster]

"Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote in message
news:ZM2ab.167835$***@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy lets
> you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
> country...Go back home zipperhead.

Well, he told you!


>
> "Pham Nuwen" <***@libertydice.org> wrote in message
> news:***@libertydice.org...
> > Geraldo wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not a Liberal....Party politics is silly...It's the people in
charge
> > > that tell the lifetime bureaucrats how to do what they have been doing
> their
> > > entire careers....Ralph is a grade 10 dropout, bigmouthed, fool,...any
> > > imbecile could run this province with a budget surplus as energy
prices
> are
> > > bouncing off the ceiling....Even though we have the largest budget
> surpluses
> > > in history...education and health programs still suffer...why?..Now we
> have
> > > an idiot scuttling a major industry with irresponsible and stupid
> > > comments....How bad will things get when we don't have budget
surpluses?
> >
> > Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.....
> >
> > Fuck you really are nothing but a big cry baby whiner. Like I said, put
> > up, or shut up.
> >
> >
> > --
> > /---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
> > I ***@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
> > I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
> > I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
> > \---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/
> >
>
>

[Black Jacques Shellaque]

In article <ZM2ab.167835$***@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>,
"Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote:

> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy lets
> you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
> country...Go back home zipperhead.

Fuck are you ever stupid. Do a google search on the name "Pham Nuwen",
tell me what you come up with. Fucking 'tard....looks like Pham has
bagged another dumb-ass racist.

--
Failure is not an option, it comes bundled with Windows.

[David Deilley]

"Black Jacques Shellaque" <***@are.vermin> wrote

> "Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote:
>
> > You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> > DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy
lets
> > you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
> > country...Go back home zipperhead.

Hey Geraldo - the "zipper" was installed on YOUR forhead AFTER they did the
lobotomy... they were worried they might need to go back in again, AND THEY
WERE RIGHT!


> Fuck are you ever stupid. Do a google search on the name "Pham Nuwen",
> tell me what you come up with. Fucking 'tard....looks like Pham has
> bagged another dumb-ass racist.

[Chris M Tyler]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 04:31:42 GMT, "David Deilley" <***@integrate.com> wrote:

> "Black Jacques Shellaque" <***@are.vermin> wrote
>
> > "Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote:
> >
> > > You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> > > DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy
> lets
> > > you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
> > > country...Go back home zipperhead.
>
> Hey Geraldo - the "zipper" was installed on YOUR forhead AFTER they did the
> lobotomy... they were worried they might need to go back in again, AND THEY
> WERE RIGHT!
>
>
> > Fuck are you ever stupid. Do a google search on the name "Pham Nuwen",
> > tell me what you come up with. Fucking 'tard....looks like Pham has
> > bagged another dumb-ass racist.

So what does that make Pham?

[Pham Nuwen]

Chris M Tyler wrote:
> So what does that make Pham?

a fictional character in a book.

--
/---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
I ***@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
\---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

[Pam Spewin]

In article <spammers-***@newsnews.telus.net>,
***@are.vermin says...
>
>In article <ZM2ab.167835$***@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>,
> "Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote:
>
>> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
>> DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy lets
>> you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
>> country...Go back home zipperhead.
>
>Fuck are you ever stupid. Do a google search on the name "Pham Nuwen",
>tell me what you come up with. Fucking 'tard....looks like Pham has
>bagged another dumb-ass racist.
>

Pham IS another dumb-ass racist.

[Black Jacques Shellaque]

In article <GKaab.12071$***@news1.telusplanet.net>,
***@spewin.com (Pam Spewin) wrote:

> In article <spammers-***@newsnews.telus.net>,
> ***@are.vermin says...
> >
> >In article <ZM2ab.167835$***@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>,
> > "Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote:
> >
> >> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
> >> DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy lets
> >> you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
> >> country...Go back home zipperhead.
> >
> >Fuck are you ever stupid. Do a google search on the name "Pham Nuwen",
> >tell me what you come up with. Fucking 'tard....looks like Pham has
> >bagged another dumb-ass racist.
> >
>
> Pham IS another dumb-ass racist.
>

Oh? Please indicate the post where Pham uttered a racist remark. I
await your reply.

--
Failure is not an option, it comes bundled with Windows.

[Pam Spewin]

In article <spammers-***@newsnews.telus.net>,
***@are.vermin says...
>
>In article <GKaab.12071$***@news1.telusplanet.net>,
> ***@spewin.com (Pam Spewin) wrote:
>
>> In article <spammers-***@newsnews.telus.net>,
>> ***@are.vermin says...
>> >
>> >In article <ZM2ab.167835$***@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>,
>> > "Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
>> >> DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy
lets
>> >> you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
>> >> country...Go back home zipperhead.
>> >
>> >Fuck are you ever stupid. Do a google search on the name "Pham Nuwen",
>> >tell me what you come up with. Fucking 'tard....looks like Pham has
>> >bagged another dumb-ass racist.
>> >
>>
>> Pham IS another dumb-ass racist.
>>
>
>Oh? Please indicate the post where Pham uttered a racist remark. I
>await your reply.
>

His sigfile points to a racist site. And you can argue amongst yourselves
about that, because I find any refutation to be little more than a comedy
routine.

[unknown]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:27:34 GMT, ***@spewin.com (Pam Spewin) wrote:


>>Oh? Please indicate the post where Pham uttered a racist remark. I
>>await your reply.
>>
>
>His sigfile points to a racist site. And you can argue amongst yourselves
>about that, because I find any refutation to be little more than a comedy
>routine.

Did you actually go to that site? It has a picture of a statue of a blind bint
carrying a set of scales, and an admonition that the site is under construction.
Unless you consider the mere protrayal of a personage not obviously black or
amerindian (or whatever) to be racists, you're just full of shit.

[Pham Nuwen]

Pam Spewin wrote:
> His sigfile points to a racist site. And you can argue amongst yourselves
> about that, because I find any refutation to be little more than a comedy
> routine.

Bollix!

--
/---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
I ***@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
\---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

[Black Jacque Shellacque]

Pam Spewin wrote:

>
>
>His sigfile points to a racist site. And you can argue amongst yourselves
>about that, because I find any refutation to be little more than a comedy
>routine.
>
>
>
What about libertydice.org do you find racist? All I see is a figure
holding scales in one hand and a sword in the other with the notation
"this site is under development". What do you see about this site that
is racist? Can you at least describe it?

--
"The future will be better tomorrow."
-- Dan Quayle

[Probably Serious]

In article <Upsab.6119$***@edtnps84>, ***@are.vermin says...
>
>
>
>Pam Spewin wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>His sigfile points to a racist site. And you can argue amongst yourselves
>>about that, because I find any refutation to be little more than a comedy
>>routine.
>>
>>
>>
>What about libertydice.org do you find racist? All I see is a figure
>holding scales in one hand and a sword in the other with the notation
>"this site is under development". What do you see about this site that
>is racist? Can you at least describe it?
>

try searching googlegroups, the topic has been covered.

[Pham Nuwen]

Pam Spewin wrote:
> Pham IS another dumb-ass racist.

WTF??? How do you figure this?

--
/---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
I ***@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
\---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

[Jon Pike]

Pham Nuwen <***@libertydice.org> wrote in
news:***@libertydice.org:

> Geraldo wrote:
>
>> I'm not a Liberal....Party politics is silly...It's the people in
>> charge that tell the lifetime bureaucrats how to do what they have
>> been doing their entire careers....Ralph is a grade 10 dropout,
>> bigmouthed, fool,...any imbecile could run this province with a
>> budget surplus as energy prices are bouncing off the ceiling....Even
>> though we have the largest budget surpluses in history...education
>> and health programs still suffer...why?..Now we have an idiot
>> scuttling a major industry with irresponsible and stupid
>> comments....How bad will things get when we don't have budget
>> surpluses?
>
> Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.....
>
> Fuck you really are nothing but a big cry baby whiner. Like I said,
> put up, or shut up.
>
>

Sounds a lot like his hero ralphie boy there, doesn't he ? :P

--
http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=moosespet

[Chris M Tyler]

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:27:52 GMT, Pham Nuwen <***@libertydice.org> wrote:

> Geraldo wrote:
>
> > I'm not a Liberal....Party politics is silly...It's the people in charge
> > that tell the lifetime bureaucrats how to do what they have been doing their
> > entire careers....Ralph is a grade 10 dropout, bigmouthed, fool,...any
> > imbecile could run this province with a budget surplus as energy prices are
> > bouncing off the ceiling....Even though we have the largest budget surpluses
> > in history...education and health programs still suffer...why?..Now we have
> > an idiot scuttling a major industry with irresponsible and stupid
> > comments....How bad will things get when we don't have budget surpluses?
>
> Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.....
>
> Fuck you really are nothing but a big cry baby whiner. Like I said, put
> up, or shut up.

I hope the beef industry tanks in Alberta. If that's what it takes to wake up you hecks,
then so be it.

[Eddy Arnold]

There is no problem in the beef industry. My wife just came home with five stakes and they
cost $101.35. Must be one hell of a strong demand if it sells for that much.

Chris M Tyler wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:27:52 GMT, Pham Nuwen <***@libertydice.org> wrote:
>
> > Geraldo wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not a Liberal....Party politics is silly...It's the people in charge
> > > that tell the lifetime bureaucrats how to do what they have been doing their
> > > entire careers....Ralph is a grade 10 dropout, bigmouthed, fool,...any
> > > imbecile could run this province with a budget surplus as energy prices are
> > > bouncing off the ceiling....Even though we have the largest budget surpluses
> > > in history...education and health programs still suffer...why?..Now we have
> > > an idiot scuttling a major industry with irresponsible and stupid
> > > comments....How bad will things get when we don't have budget surpluses?
> >
> > Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.....
> >
> > Fuck you really are nothing but a big cry baby whiner. Like I said, put
> > up, or shut up.
>
> I hope the beef industry tanks in Alberta. If that's what it takes to wake up you hecks,
> then so be it.

[Peter White]

Eddy Arnold wrote:

> There is no problem in the beef industry. My wife just came home with five stakes and they
> cost $101.35. Must be one hell of a strong demand if it sells for that much.
>
> Chris M Tyler wrote:
>
>
>>On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:27:52 GMT, Pham Nuwen <***@libertydice.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Geraldo wrote:
>>>
>>> > I'm not a Liberal....Party politics is silly...It's the people in charge
>>> > that tell the lifetime bureaucrats how to do what they have been doing their
>>> > entire careers....Ralph is a grade 10 dropout, bigmouthed, fool,...any
>>> > imbecile could run this province with a budget surplus as energy prices are
>>> > bouncing off the ceiling....Even though we have the largest budget surpluses
>>> > in history...education and health programs still suffer...why?..Now we have
>>> > an idiot scuttling a major industry with irresponsible and stupid
>>> > comments....How bad will things get when we don't have budget surpluses?
>>>
>>> Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.....
>>>
>>> Fuck you really are nothing but a big cry baby whiner. Like I said, put
>>> up, or shut up.
>>
>>I hope the beef industry tanks in Alberta. If that's what it takes to wake up you hecks,
>>then so be it.
>
>
". My wife just came home with five stakes and they
cost $101.35"

$101.35 was the fee at the claims office I presume.
Will this cover assay also?
-Peter

[Geraldo]

Those steaks probably came from the USA...there has been a lot of foreign
meat sales since this began....Add it up...Louisiana farmer comes to Alta to
try ranching...One cow parachuted into Peace River with BSE and the Canadian
Beef Industry dies...The Texas beef industry was at or below breakeven but
now are enjoying a doubling in price and great demand....All because Canada
wouldn't help in Iraq.


"Eddy Arnold" <***@home.com> wrote in message
news:***@home.com...
> There is no problem in the beef industry. My wife just came home with five
stakes and they
> cost $101.35. Must be one hell of a strong demand if it sells for that
much.

[Black Jacque Shellacque]

Chris M Tyler wrote:

>
>
>
>I hope the beef industry tanks in Alberta. If that's what it takes to wake up you hecks,
>then so be it.
>

Why do you not like ranchers and farmers?

>
>
>

--
"The future will be better tomorrow."
-- Dan Quayle

[Chris M Tyler]

Frankly, I hope I see the day when the Alberta government has to actually govern and the
Alberta voters take the bag of their heads. Too many Albertans don't think for themselves
and simply follow the cow in front. When was the last time Alberta changed governments?


On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:23:51 GMT, "Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote:

> I'm not a Liberal....Party politics is silly...It's the people in charge
> that tell the lifetime bureaucrats how to do what they have been doing their
> entire careers....Ralph is a grade 10 dropout, bigmouthed, fool,...any
> imbecile could run this province with a budget surplus as energy prices are
> bouncing off the ceiling....Even though we have the largest budget surpluses
> in history...education and health programs still suffer...why?..Now we have
> an idiot scuttling a major industry with irresponsible and stupid
> comments....How bad will things get when we don't have budget surpluses?
>
>
> "Pham Nuwen" <***@libertydice.org> wrote in message
> news:***@libertydice.org...
> > Geraldo wrote:
> > > We didn't vote for a comedian to be premiere...if we had it sure
> wouldn't
> > > have been that fat little creep...
> >
> > I can expect to see your name on the ballot next time, then can I?
> >
> > I don't think you are in the slightest interested in the issues, you
> > like every other liberal in this province for the last twenty years only
> > wants to cut the Conservatives down. Why not present some positions of
> > what you would do for a change, instead of just knocking what Ralph
> > does, no matter what he does.
> >
> > The Liberals will never win an election in this province as long as they
> > continue to play naysayer, and don't have any real positions, or
> > candidates to say how they could do better.
> >
> > --
> > /---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
> > I ***@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
> > I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
> > I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
> > \---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/
> >
>

[News]

"Chris M Tyler" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> Frankly, I hope I see the day when the Alberta government has to actually
govern and the
> Alberta voters take the bag of their heads. Too many Albertans don't
think for themselves
> and simply follow the cow in front. When was the last time Alberta
changed governments?

Geez. Let it go man, we all know you hate Klein. Point made. Reading
the same spastic comments in every post is going to leave you in a lot of
killfiles.

And to echo what the others have been saying, give a viable alternative.
If "Klein is the problem" what the hell is the solution?

[Pham Nuwen]

News wrote:
> And to echo what the others have been saying, give a viable alternative.
> If "Klein is the problem" what the hell is the solution?

Obvious, you give the NDP, or Liberals who have no experience,
leadership, vision, defined policies, or principles the reigns of power,
so they can sink Alberta into an economic morass like BC. <rolls eyes>

You know the other side has nothing of substance when all they ever do
is take the contrary position. Some days I wonder how many of these
people would start sharing welsh recipes, if Klein came out against baby
eating.

While it is ok to be full of piss'n'vinegar it is never ok to be full of
just piss, or vinegar.

--
/---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
I ***@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
\---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/

[The Doctor]

In article <***@libertydice.org>,
Pham Nuwen <***@libertydice.org> wrote:
>News wrote:
>> And to echo what the others have been saying, give a viable alternative.
>> If "Klein is the problem" what the hell is the solution?
>
>Obvious, you give the NDP, or Liberals who have no experience,
>leadership, vision, defined policies, or principles the reigns of power,
>so they can sink Alberta into an economic morass like BC. <rolls eyes>
>
>You know the other side has nothing of substance when all they ever do
>is take the contrary position. Some days I wonder how many of these
>people would start sharing welsh recipes, if Klein came out against baby
>eating.
>
>While it is ok to be full of piss'n'vinegar it is never ok to be full of
>just piss, or vinegar.
>

Dishonest Ralph does it again!
--
Member - Liberal International On 11 Sept 2001 the WORLD was violated.
This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
Society MUST be saved! Extremists must dissolve.
Ontario on 2 Octo 2003, VOTE LIBERAL!!

[News]

> Dishonest Ralph does it again!
> --
> Member - Liberal International On 11 Sept 2001 the WORLD was violated.
> This is ***@nl2k.ab.ca Ici ***@nl2k.ab.ca
> Society MUST be saved! Extremists must dissolve.
> Ontario on 2 Octo 2003, VOTE LIBERAL!!

Hmmmm, you're hardly biased.......

[Chris M Tyler]

Tell me, why is it that whenever some one points out that the current government in
Alberta is lazy, arrogant and corrupt, people like you automatically assume that person is
a card caring member or supporter of the other party(ies)???

Your response is typical example of the average Alberta voter.


On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:09:57 GMT, Pham Nuwen <***@libertydice.org> wrote:

> News wrote:
> > And to echo what the others have been saying, give a viable alternative.
> > If "Klein is the problem" what the hell is the solution?

Define viable!

BTW what are the other parties' solutions? And don't try and fake it with cut and paste
shit in an effort to appear well informed. Just tell me in your own words.
>
> Obvious, you give the NDP, or Liberals who have no experience,
> leadership, vision, defined policies, or principles the reigns of power,
> so they can sink Alberta into an economic morass like BC. <rolls eyes>

So your arguments is that without experience no other government is able to replace the
current government. I guess Alberta will have the PC's in power to the end of time.
You're a typical Albertan.

Thanks for making my point.

>
> You know the other side has nothing of substance when all they ever do
> is take the contrary position. Some days I wonder how many of these
> people would start sharing welsh recipes, if Klein came out against baby
> eating.
>
> While it is ok to be full of piss'n'vinegar it is never ok to be full of
> just piss, or vinegar.

[Black Jacque Shellacque]

Chris M Tyler wrote:

>Frankly, I hope I see the day when the Alberta government has to actually govern and the
>Alberta voters take the bag of their heads. Too many Albertans don't think for themselves
>and simply follow the cow in front. When was the last time Alberta changed governments?
>
>

I would gladly vote for someone other than the PC's....there is nothing
better however. Ken Nicols and the Liberals? New Democrats? Ha!
Those two are the provincial equivalent of dumb and dumber. Give me an
better alternative to the PC's and I will be a vocal supporter. If the
libs and the ndp is the best you can do then quit wasting my time.

>
>
>
>
>
>

--
"The future will be better tomorrow."
-- Dan Quayle

[g***@vcn.bc.ca]

Black Jacques Shellaque <***@are.vermin> wrote:
BS> Amazing how the Klein whiners point the finger at the provincial PC's
BS> but do not say one word regarding our federal liberal dictatorship.
BS> Bunch of hypocrites.

Not necessarely "hypocrites" just "people who are short-sighted and/or have
tunnel vision where politics involving their local domain is involved"!

Your friend,

<+]::-{(} ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
Ask me how to connect with me in any of 5 Instant Messengers

(Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-

--
.
from gapope(at)vcn(dot)bc(dot)ca << Official Reply Address for Usenet Post
.

[g***@vcn.bc.ca]

"David Deilley" <***@integrate.com> wrote:
"D> "Black Jacques Shellaque" <***@are.vermin> wrote
"D>
"D> > "Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote:
"D> >
"D> > > You put up or shut up!!...I was born in this province you fucking
"D> > > DP!!!...You know shit about issues...Canada's weak immigration policy
"D> lets
"D> > > you fucking asian criminals come here now you think you can run the
"D> > > country...Go back home zipperhead.
"D>
"D> Hey Geraldo - the "zipper" was installed on YOUR forhead AFTER they did th
"D> lobotomy... they were worried they might need to go back in again, AND THE
"D> WERE RIGHT!
"D>
"D>
"D> > Fuck are you ever stupid. Do a google search on the name "Pham Nuwen",
"D> > tell me what you come up with. Fucking 'tard....looks like Pham has
"D> > bagged another dumb-ass racist.

Pretty typical of Usenet debate -- jump in and pound away with an ad hominem
posting and completely ignore any REAL points made by the same prior poster!

If "zipperhead" refers to an acephalic condition of stupidity, then the last
sentence by "Geraldo" directly calls you "stupid" in a less colloquial wording,
but you completely ignored the point made there, and the attempt, by that
poster, to provide support for the claim!

I'll give you credit, though, unlike most, you didn't completely DELETE the
sentence that incriminates you in your kneejerk attack!

So Usenet is the CIVILIZED version of the Roman Collisseum, eh? :|

What a crock!

Call me the guy in the Collisseum audience who is catcalling the fighter who
kicked his opponent in the balls, rather than go one-on-one with the short
swords!

Your friend,

<+]::-{(} ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
Ask me how to connect with me in any of 5 Instant Messengers

(Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-

--
.
from gapope(at)vcn(dot)bc(dot)ca << Official Reply Address for Usenet Post
.

[g***@vcn.bc.ca]

***@netidea.com (Kelly Eugene) wrote:
> "Ask me whether the glass is half full or half empty,
> and I will ask you how it can be half full without
> being half empty at the same time"

Ask ME if it's half full or half empty & I'll point out to you that it's
NEITHER, because it's evaporating as we discuss it!

Ask my dad, and he'll say it's half-empty, and that that demonstrates that his
is an OPTIMISTIC personality, because, since his is half-empty, he's already
HAD half, and it can be refilled -- if yours is half-full, that's obviously all
you're GETTING!!!


Your friend,

<+]::-{(} ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
Ask me how to connect with me in any of 5 Instant Messengers

(Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-

--
.
from gapope(at)vcn(dot)bc(dot)ca << Official Reply Address for Usenet Post
.

[`Top Poster`]

This is about Alberta beef not being fit to eat,

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous

Pham Nuwen <***@libertydice.org> wrote in message
news:***@libertydice.org...
> Geraldo wrote:
> > We didn't vote for a comedian to be premiere...if we had it sure
wouldn't
> > have been that fat little creep...
>
> I can expect to see your name on the ballot next time, then can I?
>
> I don't think you are in the slightest interested in the issues, you
> like every other liberal in this province for the last twenty years only
> wants to cut the Conservatives down. Why not present some positions of
> what you would do for a change, instead of just knocking what Ralph
> does, no matter what he does.
>
> The Liberals will never win an election in this province as long as they
> continue to play naysayer, and don't have any real positions, or
> candidates to say how they could do better.
>
> --
> /---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
> I ***@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
> I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
> I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
> \---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/
>

[The #1 Sharxster]

"Pham Nuwen" <***@libertydice.org> wrote in message
news:***@libertydice.org...
> Geraldo wrote:
> > We didn't vote for a comedian to be premiere...if we had it sure
wouldn't
> > have been that fat little creep...
>
> I can expect to see your name on the ballot next time, then can I?
>
> I don't think you are in the slightest interested in the issues, you
> like every other liberal in this province for the last twenty years only
> wants to cut the Conservatives down. Why not present some positions of
> what you would do for a change, instead of just knocking what Ralph
> does, no matter what he does.
>
> The Liberals will never win an election in this province as long as they
> continue to play naysayer, and don't have any real positions, or
> candidates to say how they could do better.
>

I doubt that that little cocksucking faggot's name will ever sully a ballot.


> --
> /---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---\
> I ***@libertydice.org II No nation was ever ruined by I
> I http://www.libertydice.org II trade, even seemingly the most I
> I remove "3d6" to e-mail II disadvantageous. - Ben Franklin I
> \---+----+----+----+----+----+----++----+----+----+----+----+----+---/
>

[Chris M Tyler]

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:47:47 GMT, Pham Nuwen <***@libertydice.org> wrote:

> Geraldo wrote:
> > We didn't vote for a comedian to be premiere...if we had it sure wouldn't
> > have been that fat little creep...
>
> I can expect to see your name on the ballot next time, then can I?
>
> I don't think you are in the slightest interested in the issues, you
> like every other liberal in this province for the last twenty years only
> wants to cut the Conservatives down. Why not present some positions of
> what you would do for a change, instead of just knocking what Ralph
> does, no matter what he does.
>
> The Liberals will never win an election in this province as long as they
> continue to play naysayer, and don't have any real positions, or
> candidates to say how they could do better.

Well Pham Pham, Ralph is an idiot. This is nothing new to non-rednecks. The excuses for
his "Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up" comments are just that, excuses. If it was a joke, then it
was pretty irresponsible. If he's frustrated, well it's about time the Alberta PC's and
their fool of a leader have been challenged with a crisis. These clowns have sat back on
their lazy asses for too many years relying on the oil & gas royalties to make them look
good. You know what they say about a crisis, "it doesn't build character it merely
reveals it."

I think it's pretty evident that Klein is back on the bottle.

[News]

> Well Pham Pham, Ralph is an idiot. This is nothing new to non-rednecks.
The excuses for
> his "Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up" comments are just that, excuses. If it was a
joke, then it
> was pretty irresponsible. If he's frustrated, well it's about time the
Alberta PC's and
> their fool of a leader have been challenged with a crisis. These clowns
have sat back on
> their lazy asses for too many years relying on the oil & gas royalties to
make them look
> good. You know what they say about a crisis, "it doesn't build character
it merely
> reveals it."

Shut the fuck up. Or at least go back to Ontario. (Or wherever out
east you were raised) You sit here and bitch and offer up ZERO solutions.
ZERO!! That's the type of behavoir we expect from the Provincial Liberals,
all bitch no fix. That's exactly why they won't touch Provincial Power for
another couple of decades. If things are so freaking bad here, why stay?

> I think it's pretty evident that Klein is back on the bottle.

Couldn't be any worse than the shit you're smoking.

[Mark]

Geraldo <I'***@hotmaill.com> wrote in message
news:WD1ab.977841$***@news3.calgary.shaw.ca...

> have been that fat little creep....

Good to see that you're not biased.


Mark

[`Top Poster`]

I dont this jokers joke

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous

BigC <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> He was just joking
>
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:55:00 GMT, "Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Ralph Klein shoots off his stupid mouth again!!!...Ralph emabarrasses
Canada
> >with stupid remarks at Governor's Meeting...(Full story
follows)......With
> >Ralph's wisdom on cover ups it brings to mind several during his
> >premiership......"SHOOT, SHOVEL, SHUT UP"...Has anyone seen the COOS
since
> >they disappeared after it was revealed they had been giving Ralph and
> >Colleen all sorts of gifts with the money they stole from Bank Of
Montreal?
> >
> >Maybe Ralph actually takes his own advice. With his free stock deal there
> >were too many to Shoot , Shovel, and Shut up about so he did what he
> >normally does...HE LIES..the fat little prick.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >==============================================
> >'Shoot, shovel, shut up'
> >Premier's words defended as 'ironic' -- not advice to break the law
> >
> >Kelly Cryderman and Jim Farrell, Journal Staff Writers
> >Edmonton Journal
> >
> >
> >Premier Ralph Klein has suggested that any "self-respecting rancher"
would
> >have killed and buried the northern Alberta animal stricken with mad cow
> >disease, instead of taking it to a slaughterhouse.
> >
> >"It all came about through the discovery of a single, isolated case of
mad
> >cow disease in one Alberta cow on May 20," Klein told state governors and
> >his fellow western premiers at the Western Governors' Association meeting
> >Sunday in Big Sky, Montana.
> >
> >"This was in northern Alberta, and the farmer was a -- I think he was a
> >Louisiana fish-farmer -- who knew nothing about cattle ranching. And I
guess
> >any self-respecting rancher would have shot, shovelled and shut up, but
he
> >didn't do that. Instead he took it an abattoir and it was discovered
after
> >testing in both Winnipeg and the U.K. that this cow, this older cow, had
mad
> >cow disease."
> >
> >On a tape of speech obtained from a National Public Radio affiliate,
Klein
> >goes on to speak about the economic devastation the one diseased cow
caused
> >to the Canadian economy, along with his frustration over international
> >border closures. He asked for the governors' assistance in getting the
> >border fully re-opened.
> >
> >The premier was unavailable for comment Tuesday, but his office said
Klein
> >had been speaking sarcastically.
> >
> >Klein's spokesman Jim Law said the premier was not advocating the
practise
> >of shoot, shovel and shut up. "We have protocols in place, and we want
the
> >animals -- if any occur -- to be found."
> >
> >But Alberta Liberal Leader Ken Nicol called Klein's remarks the "most
> >damaging thing that has been said by anybody" since Canada's single case
of
> >bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) came to light May 20.
> >
> >"It shows a total disrespect for what we have to do to sustain an
> >international image of quality in our beef products," Nicol said. "A
person
> >out there representing our province should never, even in jest, had said
> >that."
> >
> >Nicol added, "if it ever came to light that we did what the premier
> >suggested, our industry would be destroyed."
> >
> >Canadian beef was banned by almost three dozen countries in late May when
it
> >was made public that a single case of BSE had been found in northern
> >Alberta. The animal came from Marwyn Peaster's farm near Wanham, Alta.
> >Peaster had moved to Alberta from Mississippi, and had once raised
catfish.
> >
> >Although the U.S. is now accepting some cuts of beef, borders remain
closed
> >to many beef cuts and live cattle -- costing the Canadian industry
millions
> >of dollars each day.
> >
> >Peter Clark, a trade consultant with an expertise in agriculture, said he
> >hopes the premier was speaking sarcastically.
> >
> >"I've done work for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association before, and
these
> >cattlemen are as honest as the day is long," Clark said. "They have an
> >interest in maintaining the system."
> >
> >Klein's comments do not help the situation, Clark said. "Here's the
leader
> >of our provincial government suggesting that it's alright or it's smart
to
> >cover up things like this. And that's certainly not government policy,
and
> >it's not a policy that ranchers in Alberta, I sure, would advocate
either.
> >
> >"I'm sure that a lot of (ranchers) wish that it had never come to light,
but
> >it did. And the system is there to protect us, and to protect our
> >reputation."
> >
> >Ron Wooddisse, president of the Ontario Cattlemen's Association, said
Klein
> >was likely trying to make the point that sick animals should not go into
the
> >food chain. Cattle should be tested and BSE should not be hidden, he
said,
> >but many farmers do feel frustrated that millions has been lost because
of
> >one animal.
> >
> >"What's the payback for being the boy scout?" Wooddisse said has been the
> >concern voiced. "All we've done is got kicked in the teeth."
> >
> >Cindy McCreath, a spokeswoman for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association,
> >would not comment on Klein's remarks. But she said that the Canadian,
U.S.
> >and Mexican governments, along with cattle industry organizations, have
> >asked the international body which regulates animal health, the OIE, to
> >introduce less punitive standards for countries that have strong safety
> >protocols in place but still end up with one case of mad cow disease.
> >
> >As part of their arguments, they say having a policy in place that leads
to
> >such a quick closing of borders could push some farmers to try to hide
BSE
> >cases.
> >
> >In July, federal cabinet minister Ralph Goodale said the "unjustifiable"
way
> >trade partners have dealt with Canada due to its one case of mad cow
disease
> >will encourage other countries to "shoot, shovel and shut up" when
dealing
> >with infected animals.
> >
> >
> >
>

[Freddie Newsgroup]

He was drunk. Again.

There is a disease that cattle can get called Purple Tongue. Now Alberta has
another problem called Klein Tongue.


"BigC" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> He was just joking
>
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:55:00 GMT, "Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Ralph Klein shoots off his stupid mouth again!!!...Ralph emabarrasses
Canada
> >with stupid remarks at Governor's Meeting...(Full story
follows)......With
> >Ralph's wisdom on cover ups it brings to mind several during his
> >premiership......"SHOOT, SHOVEL, SHUT UP"...Has anyone seen the COOS
since
> >they disappeared after it was revealed they had been giving Ralph and
> >Colleen all sorts of gifts with the money they stole from Bank Of
Montreal?
> >
> >Maybe Ralph actually takes his own advice. With his free stock deal there
> >were too many to Shoot , Shovel, and Shut up about so he did what he
> >normally does...HE LIES..the fat little prick.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >==============================================
> >'Shoot, shovel, shut up'
> >Premier's words defended as 'ironic' -- not advice to break the law
> >
> >Kelly Cryderman and Jim Farrell, Journal Staff Writers
> >Edmonton Journal
> >
> >
> >Premier Ralph Klein has suggested that any "self-respecting rancher"
would
> >have killed and buried the northern Alberta animal stricken with mad cow
> >disease, instead of taking it to a slaughterhouse.
> >
> >"It all came about through the discovery of a single, isolated case of
mad
> >cow disease in one Alberta cow on May 20," Klein told state governors and
> >his fellow western premiers at the Western Governors' Association meeting
> >Sunday in Big Sky, Montana.
> >
> >"This was in northern Alberta, and the farmer was a -- I think he was a
> >Louisiana fish-farmer -- who knew nothing about cattle ranching. And I
guess
> >any self-respecting rancher would have shot, shovelled and shut up, but
he
> >didn't do that. Instead he took it an abattoir and it was discovered
after
> >testing in both Winnipeg and the U.K. that this cow, this older cow, had
mad
> >cow disease."
> >
> >On a tape of speech obtained from a National Public Radio affiliate,
Klein
> >goes on to speak about the economic devastation the one diseased cow
caused
> >to the Canadian economy, along with his frustration over international
> >border closures. He asked for the governors' assistance in getting the
> >border fully re-opened.
> >
> >The premier was unavailable for comment Tuesday, but his office said
Klein
> >had been speaking sarcastically.
> >
> >Klein's spokesman Jim Law said the premier was not advocating the
practise
> >of shoot, shovel and shut up. "We have protocols in place, and we want
the
> >animals -- if any occur -- to be found."
> >
> >But Alberta Liberal Leader Ken Nicol called Klein's remarks the "most
> >damaging thing that has been said by anybody" since Canada's single case
of
> >bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) came to light May 20.
> >
> >"It shows a total disrespect for what we have to do to sustain an
> >international image of quality in our beef products," Nicol said. "A
person
> >out there representing our province should never, even in jest, had said
> >that."
> >
> >Nicol added, "if it ever came to light that we did what the premier
> >suggested, our industry would be destroyed."
> >
> >Canadian beef was banned by almost three dozen countries in late May when
it
> >was made public that a single case of BSE had been found in northern
> >Alberta. The animal came from Marwyn Peaster's farm near Wanham, Alta.
> >Peaster had moved to Alberta from Mississippi, and had once raised
catfish.
> >
> >Although the U.S. is now accepting some cuts of beef, borders remain
closed
> >to many beef cuts and live cattle -- costing the Canadian industry
millions
> >of dollars each day.
> >
> >Peter Clark, a trade consultant with an expertise in agriculture, said he
> >hopes the premier was speaking sarcastically.
> >
> >"I've done work for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association before, and
these
> >cattlemen are as honest as the day is long," Clark said. "They have an
> >interest in maintaining the system."
> >
> >Klein's comments do not help the situation, Clark said. "Here's the
leader
> >of our provincial government suggesting that it's alright or it's smart
to
> >cover up things like this. And that's certainly not government policy,
and
> >it's not a policy that ranchers in Alberta, I sure, would advocate
either.
> >
> >"I'm sure that a lot of (ranchers) wish that it had never come to light,
but
> >it did. And the system is there to protect us, and to protect our
> >reputation."
> >
> >Ron Wooddisse, president of the Ontario Cattlemen's Association, said
Klein
> >was likely trying to make the point that sick animals should not go into
the
> >food chain. Cattle should be tested and BSE should not be hidden, he
said,
> >but many farmers do feel frustrated that millions has been lost because
of
> >one animal.
> >
> >"What's the payback for being the boy scout?" Wooddisse said has been the
> >concern voiced. "All we've done is got kicked in the teeth."
> >
> >Cindy McCreath, a spokeswoman for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association,
> >would not comment on Klein's remarks. But she said that the Canadian,
U.S.
> >and Mexican governments, along with cattle industry organizations, have
> >asked the international body which regulates animal health, the OIE, to
> >introduce less punitive standards for countries that have strong safety
> >protocols in place but still end up with one case of mad cow disease.
> >
> >As part of their arguments, they say having a policy in place that leads
to
> >such a quick closing of borders could push some farmers to try to hide
BSE
> >cases.
> >
> >In July, federal cabinet minister Ralph Goodale said the "unjustifiable"
way
> >trade partners have dealt with Canada due to its one case of mad cow
disease
> >will encourage other countries to "shoot, shovel and shut up" when
dealing
> >with infected animals.
> >
> >
> >
>

[Chris M Tyler]

LMAO


On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:42:30 GMT, "Freddie Newsgroup" <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

> He was drunk. Again.
>
> There is a disease that cattle can get called Purple Tongue. Now Alberta has
> another problem called Klein Tongue.
>
>
> "BigC" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:***@4ax.com...
> > He was just joking
> >
> > On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:55:00 GMT, "Geraldo" <I'***@hotmaill.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Ralph Klein shoots off his stupid mouth again!!!...Ralph emabarrasses
> Canada
> > >with stupid remarks at Governor's Meeting...(Full story
> follows)......With
> > >Ralph's wisdom on cover ups it brings to mind several during his
> > >premiership......"SHOOT, SHOVEL, SHUT UP"...Has anyone seen the COOS
> since
> > >they disappeared after it was revealed they had been giving Ralph and
> > >Colleen all sorts of gifts with the money they stole from Bank Of
> Montreal?
> > >
> > >Maybe Ralph actually takes his own advice. With his free stock deal there
> > >were too many to Shoot , Shovel, and Shut up about so he did what he
> > >normally does...HE LIES..the fat little prick.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >==============================================
> > >'Shoot, shovel, shut up'
> > >Premier's words defended as 'ironic' -- not advice to break the law
> > >
> > >Kelly Cryderman and Jim Farrell, Journal Staff Writers
> > >Edmonton Journal
> > >
> > >
> > >Premier Ralph Klein has suggested that any "self-respecting rancher"
> would
> > >have killed and buried the northern Alberta animal stricken with mad cow
> > >disease, instead of taking it to a slaughterhouse.
> > >
> > >"It all came about through the discovery of a single, isolated case of
> mad
> > >cow disease in one Alberta cow on May 20," Klein told state governors and
> > >his fellow western premiers at the Western Governors' Association meeting
> > >Sunday in Big Sky, Montana.
> > >
> > >"This was in northern Alberta, and the farmer was a -- I think he was a
> > >Louisiana fish-farmer -- who knew nothing about cattle ranching. And I
> guess
> > >any self-respecting rancher would have shot, shovelled and shut up, but
> he
> > >didn't do that. Instead he took it an abattoir and it was discovered
> after
> > >testing in both Winnipeg and the U.K. that this cow, this older cow, had
> mad
> > >cow disease."
> > >
> > >On a tape of speech obtained from a National Public Radio affiliate,
> Klein
> > >goes on to speak about the economic devastation the one diseased cow
> caused
> > >to the Canadian economy, along with his frustration over international
> > >border closures. He asked for the governors' assistance in getting the
> > >border fully re-opened.
> > >
> > >The premier was unavailable for comment Tuesday, but his office said
> Klein
> > >had been speaking sarcastically.
> > >
> > >Klein's spokesman Jim Law said the premier was not advocating the
> practise
> > >of shoot, shovel and shut up. "We have protocols in place, and we want
> the
> > >animals -- if any occur -- to be found."
> > >
> > >But Alberta Liberal Leader Ken Nicol called Klein's remarks the "most
> > >damaging thing that has been said by anybody" since Canada's single case
> of
> > >bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) came to light May 20.
> > >
> > >"It shows a total disrespect for what we have to do to sustain an
> > >international image of quality in our beef products," Nicol said. "A
> person
> > >out there representing our province should never, even in jest, had said
> > >that."
> > >
> > >Nicol added, "if it ever came to light that we did what the premier
> > >suggested, our industry would be destroyed."
> > >
> > >Canadian beef was banned by almost three dozen countries in late May when
> it
> > >was made public that a single case of BSE had been found in northern
> > >Alberta. The animal came from Marwyn Peaster's farm near Wanham, Alta.
> > >Peaster had moved to Alberta from Mississippi, and had once raised
> catfish.
> > >
> > >Although the U.S. is now accepting some cuts of beef, borders remain
> closed
> > >to many beef cuts and live cattle -- costing the Canadian industry
> millions
> > >of dollars each day.
> > >
> > >Peter Clark, a trade consultant with an expertise in agriculture, said he
> > >hopes the premier was speaking sarcastically.
> > >
> > >"I've done work for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association before, and
> these
> > >cattlemen are as honest as the day is long," Clark said. "They have an
> > >interest in maintaining the system."
> > >
> > >Klein's comments do not help the situation, Clark said. "Here's the
> leader
> > >of our provincial government suggesting that it's alright or it's smart
> to
> > >cover up things like this. And that's certainly not government policy,
> and
> > >it's not a policy that ranchers in Alberta, I sure, would advocate
> either.
> > >
> > >"I'm sure that a lot of (ranchers) wish that it had never come to light,
> but
> > >it did. And the system is there to protect us, and to protect our
> > >reputation."
> > >
> > >Ron Wooddisse, president of the Ontario Cattlemen's Association, said
> Klein
> > >was likely trying to make the point that sick animals should not go into
> the
> > >food chain. Cattle should be tested and BSE should not be hidden, he
> said,
> > >but many farmers do feel frustrated that millions has been lost because
> of
> > >one animal.
> > >
> > >"What's the payback for being the boy scout?" Wooddisse said has been the
> > >concern voiced. "All we've done is got kicked in the teeth."
> > >
> > >Cindy McCreath, a spokeswoman for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association,
> > >would not comment on Klein's remarks. But she said that the Canadian,
> U.S.
> > >and Mexican governments, along with cattle industry organizations, have
> > >asked the international body which regulates animal health, the OIE, to
> > >introduce less punitive standards for countries that have strong safety
> > >protocols in place but still end up with one case of mad cow disease.
> > >
> > >As part of their arguments, they say having a policy in place that leads
> to
> > >such a quick closing of borders could push some farmers to try to hide
> BSE
> > >cases.
> > >
> > >In July, federal cabinet minister Ralph Goodale said the "unjustifiable"
> way
> > >trade partners have dealt with Canada due to its one case of mad cow
> disease
> > >will encourage other countries to "shoot, shovel and shut up" when
> dealing
> > >with infected animals.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

[g***@vcn.bc.ca]

"Freddie Newsgroup" <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
"N> He was drunk. Again.

Perhaps Klein & Campbell are stranger bedfellows than we might have thought!

Your friend,

<+]::-{(} ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
Ask me how to connect with me in any of 5 Instant Messengers

(Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-

--
.
from gapope(at)vcn(dot)bc(dot)ca << Official Reply Address for Usenet Post
.

[Tom2Tec]

Oh no, here we go again .. not another provocative post about yet another
needless controversy. Now just watch all the overly affluent jump to his defence
and all the underpaid leap to criticize. I myself would just like to point out
that he wasn't very kind to the rancher and the PC's are on the de fence ...
again. Nor did his comments help in any way. Of course, personally I wouldn't
care, if my bills and taxes were lower and my wages higher. But we know that
isn't going to happen while corporations are calling the shots and paying the
way for political favouritism.

2tec ~ speaks two freely

PS Heya PC's, isn't it funny how giving money to rich businesses is good but
giving it to poor or old people is bad.

[John Fleming]

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:16:17 GMT, while chained to a desk in the
scriptorium, "Tom2Tec" <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

> $Oh no, here we go again .. not another provocative post about yet another
> $needless controversy. Now just watch all the overly affluent jump to his defence
> $and all the underpaid leap to criticize. I myself would just like to point out
> $that he wasn't very kind to the rancher and the PC's are on the de fence ...
> $again. Nor did his comments help in any way. Of course, personally I wouldn't
> $care, if my bills and taxes were lower and my wages higher. But we know that
> $isn't going to happen while corporations are calling the shots and paying the
> $way for political favouritism.

Joking or not, Klein may vary well have said something that hit
very close to the truth.

Some ranchers, given a cow that is acting funny, might very well
have shot the thing and buried the carcass.

I'm not saying this is typical of ranchers or farmers in Canada.
They aren't.

I'm saying that, out there, there are a few who, knowing what
side their bread is buttered on, might do something like that in
an attempt to avoid muking their livelihood.

Some people do put self interest ahead of the common good.

--
John Fleming
Edmonton, Canada

A Dreamer is One Who Can Only Find Her
Way by Moonlight.

-- Oscar Wilde

[Iam]

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:16:17 GMT, "Tom2Tec"
<***@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Oh no, here we go again .. not another provocative post about yet another
>needless controversy. Now just watch all the overly affluent jump to his defence
>and all the underpaid leap to criticize. I myself would just like to point out
>that he wasn't very kind to the rancher and the PC's are on the de fence ...
>again. Nor did his comments help in any way. Of course, personally I wouldn't
>care, if my bills and taxes were lower and my wages higher. But we know that
>isn't going to happen while corporations are calling the shots and paying the
>way for political favouritism.
>
>2tec ~ speaks two freely
>
>PS Heya PC's, isn't it funny how giving money to rich businesses is good but
>giving it to poor or old people is bad.

Yeah, I still haven't figured out why when there was such a beef glut
on the market the government didn't step in and say "hey, let's give
the people a break and reduce prices" - instead the government wanted
the farmers to kill and burn all the meat. All in the name of keeping
prices high. Same thing happened with our pork...same thing with the
tire tax...the company that gets the 4.00 a tire showed a huge profit
this year and instead of the government saying "drop the prices to
consumer's" the government told them that they had better spend it on
research or something.....watch...I bet the wages skyrocket just like
at Capital Health Region, Bill Smith and Council, etc. etc. I just
don't understand what is going on in this country today...
>
>

[Tom2Tec]

*blush*

2tec ~ willfully wastes words

[`Top Poster`]

'Shoot, shovel, shut up'
Premier's words defended as 'ironic' -- not advice to break the law

Kelly Cryderman and Jim Farrell, Journal Staff Writers
Edmonton Journal


Premier Ralph Klein has suggested that any "self-respecting rancher" would
have killed and buried the northern Alberta animal stricken with mad cow
disease, instead of taking it to a slaughterhouse.

"It all came about through the discovery of a single, isolated case of mad
cow disease in one Alberta cow on May 20," Klein told state governors and
his fellow western premiers at the Western Governors' Association meeting
Sunday in Big Sky, Montana.

"This was in northern Alberta, and the farmer was a -- I think he was a
Louisiana fish-farmer -- who knew nothing about cattle ranching. And I guess
any self-respecting rancher would have shot, shovelled and shut up, but he
didn't do that. Instead he took it an abattoir and it was discovered after
testing in both Winnipeg and the U.K. that this cow, this older cow, had mad
cow disease."

On a tape of speech obtained from a National Public Radio affiliate, Klein
goes on to speak about the economic devastation the one diseased cow caused
to the Canadian economy, along with his frustration over international
border closures. He asked for the governors' assistance in getting the
border fully re-opened.

The premier was unavailable for comment Tuesday, but his office said Klein
had been speaking sarcastically.

Klein's spokesman Jim Law said the premier was not advocating the practise
of shoot, shovel and shut up. "We have protocols in place, and we want the
animals -- if any occur -- to be found."

But Alberta Liberal Leader Ken Nicol called Klein's remarks the "most
damaging thing that has been said by anybody" since Canada's single case of
bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) came to light May 20.

"It shows a total disrespect for what we have to do to sustain an
international image of quality in our beef products," Nicol said. "A person
out there representing our province should never, even in jest, had said
that."

Nicol added, "if it ever came to light that we did what the premier
suggested, our industry would be destroyed."

Canadian beef was banned by almost three dozen countries in late May when it
was made public that a single case of BSE had been found in northern
Alberta. The animal came from Marwyn Peaster's farm near Wanham, Alta.
Peaster had moved to Alberta from Mississippi, and had once raised catfish.

Although the U.S. is now accepting some cuts of beef, borders remain closed
to many beef cuts and live cattle -- costing the Canadian industry millions
of dollars each day.

Peter Clark, a trade consultant with an expertise in agriculture, said he
hopes the premier was speaking sarcastically.

"I've done work for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association before, and these
cattlemen are as honest as the day is long," Clark said. "They have an
interest in maintaining the system."

Klein's comments do not help the situation, Clark said. "Here's the leader
of our provincial government suggesting that it's alright or it's smart to
cover up things like this. And that's certainly not government policy, and
it's not a policy that ranchers in Alberta, I sure, would advocate either.

"I'm sure that a lot of (ranchers) wish that it had never come to light, but
it did. And the system is there to protect us, and to protect our
reputation."

Ron Wooddisse, president of the Ontario Cattlemen's Association, said Klein
was likely trying to make the point that sick animals should not go into the
food chain. Cattle should be tested and BSE should not be hidden, he said,
but many farmers do feel frustrated that millions has been lost because of
one animal.

"What's the payback for being the boy scout?" Wooddisse said has been the
concern voiced. "All we've done is got kicked in the teeth."

Cindy McCreath, a spokeswoman for the Canadian Cattlemen's Association,
would not comment on Klein's remarks. But she said that the Canadian, U.S.
and Mexican governments, along with cattle industry organizations, have
asked the international body which regulates animal health, the OIE, to
introduce less punitive standards for countries that have strong safety
protocols in place but still end up with one case of mad cow disease.

As part of their arguments, they say having a policy in place that leads to
such a quick closing of borders could push some farmers to try to hide BSE
cases.

In July, federal cabinet minister Ralph Goodale said the "unjustifiable" way
trade partners have dealt with Canada due to its one case of mad cow disease
will encourage other countries to "shoot, shovel and shut up" when dealing
with infected animals.





--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous

[News]

"`Top Poster`" <***@Poster.com> wrote in message
news:m24ab.3182$***@localhost...
> 'Shoot, shovel, shut up'
> Premier's words defended as 'ironic' -- not advice to break the law
>
> Kelly Cryderman and Jim Farrell, Journal Staff Writers
> Edmonton Journal
>
>
> Premier Ralph Klein has suggested that any "self-respecting rancher" would
> have killed and buried the northern Alberta animal stricken with mad cow
> disease, instead of taking it to a slaughterhouse.

<snip>

I'm not defending what he said, even though I do think it's being blown
*way* out of proportion for what was intended. Regardless, I think we're
all missing a key point here. We're Alberta......nobody cares. We seem to
have this opinion of ourselves that the world is watching. Trust me, they
aren't. We are about as prominent on the world stage as Zhejiang. For
those who don't know where that is, it's a province in China. (And
illustrates my point) Believe me, internationally speaking, Alabama is more
prominent than Alberta.

[Determinator]

"News" <***@hotmail.com> wrote:


> I'm not defending what he said, even though I do think it's being blown
>*way* out of proportion for what was intended. Regardless, I think we're
>all missing a key point here. We're Alberta......nobody cares. We seem to
>have this opinion of ourselves that the world is watching. Trust me, they
>aren't. We are about as prominent on the world stage as Zhejiang. For
>those who don't know where that is, it's a province in China. (And
>illustrates my point) Believe me, internationally speaking, Alabama is more
>prominent than Alberta.


I view ralph klien's foot in mouth incident as just that..

but he's got to learn to think before he speaks...

especially when trying to impress the people who can influence
the beef border closure...



Hmmm if we announced that Ralph klien had "hoof in mouth...."


(would it be that easy to get him out of office?? LOL)

[g***@vcn.bc.ca]

***@calcna.ab..ca. (Determinator) wrote:
D> Hmmm if we announced that Ralph klien had "hoof in mouth...."
D>
D>
D> (would it be that easy to get him out of office?? LOL)

Nah -- all you'd do then is close off one possible destination to kick him out
towards!

Your friend,

<+]::-{(} ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
Ask me how to connect with me in any of 5 Instant Messengers

(Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-

--
.
from gapope(at)vcn(dot)bc(dot)ca << Official Reply Address for Usenet Post
.

[g***@vcn.bc.ca]

***@calcna.ab..ca. (Determinator) wrote:
D> but he's got to learn to think before he speaks...
D>
D> especially when trying to impress the people who can influence
D> the beef border closure...

Why should Klein be held to higher standards than BC's "premier"? :|

Who, being an MLA(member of the assembly responsible for making LAWS!!), did
embarrassingly break a most un-PC law while visiting our largest trade
partner!

Your friend,

<+]::-{(} ("Cyberpope," the Bishop of ROM!)
Ask me how to connect with me in any of 5 Instant Messengers

(Please quote with "gapope wrote...")
-=-
In essentials, unity;
In non-essentials, liberty;
in all things, charity. -- Baxter quoting Augustine
-=-

--
.
from gapope(at)vcn(dot)bc(dot)ca << Official Reply Address for Usenet Post
.